Origins of the 1920's onwards rail containers

[Hatfield Shed]

While at the Weald and Downland museum earlier this week, what should I see on a flat deck road trailer but a container, sheathed in oblique planking, and painted yellow, overall recognisably in the same style as some of the early B type; but lacking most of the fittings such as the commode handles for chaining to a conflat. (Like a nana I failed to make a note of the location, it was somewhere near the tin chapel (M9) on the pictorial map.)

The staff were unable to provide any information, and had no idea that containers of very similar appearance once travelled by rail.

Shot in the dark, anyone here recognise the item from my poor quality description?

Some time past I was given to understand - informally - that the initial work by the LMS to develop the rail container system from 1926 onwards, took inspiration from containers already in use for house removals, and this led to the joint acquisition by the 'Big Four' of the Carter-Paterson and Pickford's house removals businesses.

Is there any truth in this? Are there any publications covering this available? (My usually effective google-fu has failed completely on this...)

[jwealleans]

Containers started with the LIverpool and Manchester Railway - the bunker wagons of the L & Y and FR can be viewed as container wagons.

The most informative publication I have is an LNER Society symposium from 2010, LNER Goods Traffic and Services. I must apologise to the author, whom I have met, but off the top of my head I can't recall his name.

I shall refresh my memory on Monday when copies will be available from the LNER Society stand (unless sold out).

[65447]

The author was Anthony Miller. It was a masterful and comprehensive piece of research, describing container development historically and wrt the LNER and complete with tabulations, statistics, and copies of all of the Diagrams.

Peter Tatlow also provides some background and similar comprehensive but briefer coverage in his LNER Wagons Volume 4B.

Essery, Rowland and Steel's British Goods Wagons from 1887 to the Present Day has, on p92, an illustration of a diagonally-planked container constructed by Gloucester Railway Carriage & Wagon Co in 1897 for Isiah Gadd of Wokingham - furniture removers.

The background to the acquisition of the cartage companies is more complex than just the removals businesses.

[65447]

And here in the museum's gallery is a photograph of the aforesaid artefact:

And still in business... https://www.reynoldsfurniture.co.uk/about-us

[Hatfield Shed]

Thanks to you both. I shall be on the look out for the Anthony Miller publication, I am sure the story is a lot more complex than what I ws originally told.

(The container and the wagon were not situated in the modern geodesic construction 'thing' - with its swiftly rotting outer cladding which suggests it will be long outlasted by the ancient buildings...)

[65447]

'The Anthony Miller' publication is not a separate item but one of several papers delivered at the 2010 LNERS Symposium:

The Big Five rather than the Big Four? The Railway Clearing House c1923-1947 - Dr Roy Edwards
Goods Traffic Operation on the ex-GNR West Riding Lines: An Area Study - Dr John Sykes
LNER North Eastern Area Traffic: Four Case Studies - David Williamson
The Development of LNER Containers - Anthony Miller
Putting it into Model Form - Bob Essery

The President’s Summary - Malcolm Crawley

Publications enquiries - https://www.lnersociety.org.uk/publications/

[Hatfield Shed]

And thanks once more!

[65447]

To which I can also add MRJ 43, in which Roger Marsh's article about container traffic opens with the same chronology: demountable boxes for coal in the 1930s-40s; late 19thC containers for road traffic principally furniture/removals; and the 1920s readoption by the railway companies. He goes on to describe the developments by the Big Four and the involvement of the RCH before BR, and then continues by delving into the details for modelling purposes.

MRJ 89 also includes an article on the subject but this time centred on the Slater's 7mm scale kits for containers and a Conflat.

[carlislecitadel2]

Just spotted this thread and will pass it on to Sascha Freudenberg who is a member of this forum. He has done research on containerisation prior to ISO shipping containers. Arguably the earliest ‘standardised’ shipping containers were the ceramic amphorae jars used by the ancient Greeks and Romans and found in shipwrecks and excavated warehouses across the ancient world. He has also uploaded a lovey 3D print of an early furniture container featured in the modelling section here, with the option to have it closed or open for loading/unloading. https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic. ... 49#p147849
In the Ulster Folk and Transport museum there is a 1927 Leyland lorry with a similar looking container body on the rear. https://www.flickr.com/photos/45703383@ ... otostream/

I will have to look up that Arthur Miller article as it sounds very interesting.

[Hatfield Shed]

As the OP I am very grateful for the quantity and quality of the information contributed, most enlightening.