The LNER Encyclopedia

Hi, I was wondering if anybody on here knows if drawings exist of Gresleys planned 2-6-4 for Southend services that got cancelled?
It’s been on my mind a lot lately.

Thanks.

I believe there's a side elevation drawing of the proposal in part 10A of the RCTS series of books on Locomotives of the LNER.

Seen a model based on the proposal outline drawing, probably constructed by 'someone' at the one time WGC MRC (early 1970s). At this distance I don't recall much in the way of detail, but it looked like a credible loco..

Atlantic 3279 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:19 pm I believe there's a side elevation drawing of the proposal in part 10A of the RCTS series of books on Locomotives of the LNER.

Not that I can see. There is, however, one on p46 of LNER Locomotive Development by J Armstrong (Peco,1974).

D

Sorry, my mistake, wrong volume, although as the loco was never built it should arguably have appeared in 10A.

It actually features in the preamble to Thompson's L1 class in the RCTS vol 9A. See page 14 drawings and read notes on page 12 for guidance, as both the 1925 Doncaster scheme for an enlarged suburban tank engine and the 1927 Stratford scheme for a loco for the Southend line are shown.

Darryl Tooley wrote: ↑Sat Jul 23, 2022 10:15 am ...There is, however, one on p46 of LNER Locomotive Development by J Armstrong ...

The necessary reminder. Just couldn't think of his name: he was a WGC resident, known for his LNER interest among enthusiasts in the locality.

Thank you for the responses!! Will look into these sources

Darryl Tooley wrote: ↑Sat Jul 23, 2022 10:15 am

Atlantic 3279 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:19 pm I believe there's a side elevation drawing of the proposal in part 10A of the RCTS series of books on Locomotives of the LNER.

Not that I can see. There is, however, one on p46 of LNER Locomotive Development by J Armstrong (Peco,1974).

D

Darryl,

That may have been my first LNER book, followed by Peter Tatlow's LNER Wagons. Then LNER Album Volume 3 new.

I must have been doing some work, because pocket money would not have paid for those volumes.

Things have moved on, and Peter Tatlow will have a new series of books, on LNER Goods traffic, out soon I hope.

John

Re the proposed 2 6 4 T Southend proposal, according to Jim Armstrong's book, and my understanding, it was not proceeded with after the "River" class of the S R difficulty in which a similar relatively large wheeled tank engine had with stability caused by harmonic imbalance of the necessarily high water tanks, probably exacerbated by poor track alignment (trials on the stable GNR mainline were subsequently done with fairly good results). The "Rivers" were all soon converted to 2 6 0 tender engines.
The 2 6 4 Southend tank would have been unusual if produced as Armstrong suggests as it would have been the only Gresley outside two cylinder locomotive since the GNR era K2 and O1.
A general arrangement drawing appears on page 46 together with text on P 44.

sturrock wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:34 am ...The 2-6 4 Southend tank would have been unusual if produced as Armstrong suggests as it would have been the only Gresley outside two cylinder locomotive since the GNR era K2 and O1...

My recollection is that this proposed 2-6-4T was only an outline scheme, and had several dubious features; leading the charge 6'2" driving wheels, when existing designs on 5'8" wheels were proven to have sufficient speed capability for this class of work. It would be interesting to know just how many significant variants and iterations of the 'larger' suburban service tank loco design were proposed, before the V1 design 'settled' in the form constructed.