The LNER Encyclopedia

Gresley A3 2571 'Sunstar' is entering Ripon station from the north, so some time after 1924, with a train of - what?

They appear to have darker coloured lower halves, lighter upper.

My initial thought was Pullmans, but not convinced at all, and generally the Pullman trains seem to have had a name board.

LNER Tourist stock? Don't look right to my eye.

GWR coaches? Well as far as I know there were no scheduled trains of GWR stock that ran through Ripon, but I have at least one photograph of a train apparently partly GRW at least, and problems on the ECML could lead to all sorts of things going up the Harrogate-Ripon-Northallerton route.

Or even coaches still in LNWR livery ... on a Newcastle-Liverpool train, which definitely did run through Ripon.

I'm afraid my coach-spotting skills are - obviously - minimal, so suggestions welcome!

Definitely Pullmans, they have the relatively distinct slab-sided appearance and more square windows.

BRDatabase states that 2571 had it's westinghouse aparatus removed in 1933, so this is between that date and 1939 (when Pullman services were halted).

Given that period it must either be the West Riding Pullman or the Queen of Scots, given the lack of headboard I believe it to be the former.

Many thanks Major!

If that is the West Riding Pullman then I think that the photo was taken between 1933 and 1935 (when the WRP stopped running north of Harrogate)

I can’t make out the underframe details of the cars on the photo. Are they visible on the original?
If there are no trusses and they are riding on 4 wheel bogies then that would indicate 1928 All steel Pullman cars I.e. the Queen of Scots. On the other hand, 6 wheel bogies and trusses would indicate that this is the WRP.

Jon

Going by what is said in 'LNER Passenger Trains and Formations 1923-67', the 'Queen of Scots' seems to me to be the more likely candidate. It's a 7-vehicle formation, consistent with it being the 'QoS'. From what I can make out in the picture, these are 8-wheel carriages, not 12, again consistent with 'QoS'. Further, I understand the West Riding Pullman to have been a 5-car formation through Ripon, having been a 7-car formation only between Kings Cross and the attachment/detachment point for the 2-car Bradford/Halifax portion. Finally, the marshalling and composition of the train in the OP's picture appears to correspond closely with that in the picture of the 'QoS' appearing at page 173 of Banks' and Carter's book.

John Palmer wrote: ↑Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:53 pm Going by what is said in 'LNER Passenger Trains and Formations 1923-67', the 'Queen of Scots' seems to me to be the more likely candidate. It's a 7-vehicle formation, consistent with it being the 'QoS'. From what I can make out in the picture, these are 8-wheel carriages, not 12, again consistent with 'QoS'. Further, I understand the West Riding Pullman to have been a 5-car formation through Ripon, having been a 7-car formation only between Kings Cross and the attachment/detachment point for the 2-car Bradford/Halifax portion. Finally, the marshalling and composition of the train in the OP's picture appears to correspond closely with that in the picture of the 'QoS' appearing at page 173 of Banks' and Carter's book.

I agree. The WRP was indeed usually a 5-car affair through Ripon, though extra coaches were sometimes added, whereas the QoS was 7, or 8, depending on where you read/what day/year it was etc! I can't tell whether the bogies are 4 or 6 wheel either; BUT - there does not seem to be a brake coach at the front of the train? That would be consistent with the normal formation of the WRP, but as I understand it NOT of the QoS..... ?

Trev21 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:24 pm... there does not seem to be a brake coach at the front of the train? That would be consistent with the normal formation of the WRP, but as I understand it NOT of the QoS..... ?

I'm fairly certain the leading carriage is a brake, the guards ducket seems quite evident, so yes, looking at that piece of info it must be the Queen of Scots, there are quite a few photos of that service not carying a headboard.

I'd also suggest that this is in the early '30s, as the carriages seem to be using the older livery, so I would assume this photo was likely taken in 1933.

Majormagna wrote: ↑Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:03 pm the guards ducket seems quite evident,

Ah - now you say it, yep. Couldn't quite make out what was what, but obvious when you know.