The LNER Encyclopedia

I have either read or been told (some time back) that during the Grouping period tank trains - which I presume covers everything from petrol, oil, possibly even tarmac, but that could be unlikely - were only ever made up of one brand of the particular product and different brands of tankers were not mixed. (My local expert - from Yorkshire - says that in his youth in 50s and 60s there were often 'mixed' tank trains but accepts this single brand may have been the case during the Grouping).

I also understand that such tank trains always had a 'non-tank' product wagon (maybe 2 or more?) between the loco/tender and the tank wagons. If this is correct what would a typical example have been?

Many thanks,
Graeme Leary
New Zealand

Photographs of tankers in trains in the steam period are rarities. The two I have seen one had a barrier wagon group serving as a fitted head made of half a dozen highfits, so deliberately marshalled; the other the short cut of tanks are so far down the train that they cannot be identified, and the 'barrier wagons' are a general mixture of opens, vans and minerals (probably a 'pick up' goods).

Living for some years in the 50/60's close to the Hull Docks overhead freight line. The docks and Saltend bound freights were
seen on a regular basis. The Docks were served by a mix of WD's in the main with a couple of J 39's .They seemed to be running 24 hours a day six days a week. They were heard during the night even New Years eve etc.
The Saltend tank trains from memory as said above were two or three vans behind the tender and the same at the
guards van end. Tanks could be in groups and made up from more than one brand. Shell , BP in the main with some
Esso marked tanks. Eastbound with empties and the loaded on the Westbound trains.
More details and loading was not known to people living near the line. Hope that helps.?

Many thanks Hatfield Shed and 53C - definitely of help and not sure where I picked up the 'misinformation' that tank wagon trains were only ever of one brand of product. Highly unlikely on reflection.
Graeme

I'm not sure about "highly unlikely", because its really a question of where the tanks are coming from and where they are going to and why are they formed in a block train. During the First World War block coal trains ran north to Rosyth displaying a variety of owners and in the Second World War I presume that the same variety would have been displayed on tanks of bunker fuel, but for ordinary domestic purposes its worth remembering that tank wagons were company owned and not pooled.

As far as barrier wagons were concerned, they were only required for light [and therefore highly flammable] fuels, eg: petrol and aviation spirit. Heavy fuels, such as bunker oil were reckoned to be safe and didn't require barriers.

G'Day Gents

There was one type of tank wagon that did usually run as a single owner 'train' and that would be 'Milk', that was usually all ' United Dairies' or Express Dairies' there may be smaller independent dairies, but they would normally be very local.

manna

Thanks Caledonia and Manna - 'more grist to the mill' to help my (sometimes) futile attempt at accuracy.

(And did enjoy the reference to 'fools and madmen' - sometimes qualify on both counts!)

Graeme

Glad you liked it - as you'll see I've been inspired to hunt for the correct words

Excellent Stuart, but in this day and age, what is (or who owns) an 'Encyclopaedia Brittanica'?
Graeme

The Internet?

Yes 2512/silverfox , as frequently used by me, but for a dreadful moment there I was worrying that I had got rid of my Encyclopaedia Brittanicas too soon (but on 2nd thoughts maybe they're still around keeping uneven items of furniture nice and level).

Probably well out of date! May even show NZ as being on the edge of the flat earth?

I hope you are right 2512silverfox, I thought it had dropped of the edge years ago.

No, still taking up space in the Southern Hemisphere - and some inhabitants prone to asking (endless) naff questions.

Graeme

Not naff, your questions provide some very interesting answers, from which we all learn.