The LNER Encyclopedia

Evening all! New member with first question...

I'm in the early stages of modelling a branch line in County Durham set in the 1950s. One of the main points of interest will be coal traffic and I'd like to put together a rake of suitable wagons for a coal drop. From what I've read so far, the P4 or P7 types would be suitable. I haven't found any ready-to-run models or kits so I'm thinking of scratchbuilding the bodies to fit Peco chassis kits.

While there are plenty of reference images, including drawings, available, I haven't found any that show the interior of these wagons, particularly the location of sloped ends, and the bottom drop doors.

If anyone can recommend a source I'd be grateful. I don't mind buying books, but it would good to know that they have what I need.

Pete (who has already learned a lot from the forums)

Would there have been many P4 and P7 left in the 1950's in BR service. Most would be 21t steel hoppers I would think as most of the wooden ones would have been flogged off to colliery railways. Although you didn't say when in the 1950's.

Yes the LNER retired most of the P4s, although a few did make it into BR ownership.

Which scale are you looking at? P4s are definitely available in 7mm as kits from a number of manufacturers. I thought 4mm had them as kits too.
Same with P7s. Haven't seen P4s for N, but the 2mm Soc. do have a kit of the P7.

The steel sided are available RTR for N and OO.

I can't help with P4s, but these may help with P7s.

If you do scratchbuild, consider the possibility of having them cast up in resin: with the Hornby Q6 having appeared, I think there's a ready market for a good model of a P7 as the 4mm Slaters kit is presently unobtainable and the ABS one has been hard to find for some years (and isn't going to be any easier to find any time soon).

Thanks for the response - much food for thought. And to jwealleans, many thanks for the pictures - I was beginning to think that no-one had ever looked inside one .

To answer points raised...

I'm modelling in N-gauge, early to mid-50s, a branch line and station loosely based on Wolsingham. I haven't found any good pictures of the Wolsingham goods yard in the period, but the Disused Stations website contains this recollection of the line:
http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/feat ... ries.shtml
which contains this: "Wolsingham Station - long passing loop with two platforms, goods yard with coal drops at east end", which is what led me down this rabbit hole.

When I started reading about coal drops, the wooden-bodied wagons seemed to crop up in the discussions often, with several references to their use well into the 60s and 70s, although perhaps only for colliery/NCB working. So, might it seem plausible that a sleepy, backwater branch line might still feature a few of these for local traffic in the early 50s?

Assuming you're are looking at 4mm - there are two options for the 21ton steel hoppers. Both the Hornby rtr model and the Parkside kit can be made into nice models. (There are threads both here and on RMWeb.) Fortunately I built up a rake of the Slaters P7 kits some years ago, and still have two to build.

I think for other exNER/LNER hopper wagons you will have to look at scratch building.

Have you seen Mr Tatlow's books on LNER Wagons? Volume 2 for the North Eastern Area will provide many happy hours of bedtime reading, and speculation and planning!

For views of actual vehicles; at Goathland you can actually walk underneath a P7 to view the hopper doors; and at Shildon there is a nice,shiny, clean version that you can get some good views of.

Edit - 22:34 - sorry - this post seems to be out of sequence. (Or else I didn't notice that you were modelling in N!)

drmditch wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:44 pm Have you seen Mr Tatlow's books on LNER Wagons? Volume 2 for the North Eastern Area will provide many happy hours of bedtime reading, and speculation and planning!

Thanks for the recommendation. Duly ordered!

For views of actual vehicles; at Goathland you can actually walk underneath a P7 to view the hopper doors; and at Shildon there is a nice,shiny, clean version that you can get some good views of.

Sadly I've been exiled in London these past 40 years, so popping over to Goathland or Shildon is not something I can do readily but it's good to know they're there if the opportunity arises.

The Tatlow books are good books and I think I've used my v2 the most! Vol 4A and 4B cover LNER designed wagons.

The original one-volume Tatlow work (probably cheap secondhand these days) covers the whole lot although of course not in anyway near as much detail as the 5 volume work.

200 miles to Goathland? Try 4500 miles!
(and 120miles to the nearest train show where there will be little if any British stuff)