The LNER Encyclopedia

I thought this image might be of use.

John

A bit extreme! I am sure that, pre WW2, it would have been shopped by now and given a facelift or at least a quick bleach with oxalic acid and fresh coat(s) of varnish. Probably more typical of old GN Howlden stock in its final days.

Good photo though!

Nick

Nick,

I deliberately selected the image as an extreme example, the rest of the SVR set N6 is no where near that dirty.

Here is GN Diagram 164K in the set. John

2512silverfox wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2017 9:29 am A bit extreme! I am sure that, pre WW2, it would have been shopped by now and given a facelift or at least a quick bleach with oxalic acid and fresh coat(s) of varnish. Probably more typical of old GN Howlden stock in its final days...

Possibly. When as a boy - born too late to have ever seen varnished teak on the LNER - I asked a railwayman on Hatfield station how it had looked he indicated a dusty grey brown Gresley BG and told me 'Pretty much like that'.

The evidence from colour photographs, which are the only objective evidence now available of 'how it was'. One of the most striking colour images of LNER teak coaches is in the Colour Rail collection, NE10. The second coach in the train has clearly been cleaned, the forward third of it at least. Bright orange brown teak one third of the coach side, dark grey brown for the rest. If it is accepted that colour photography in the 1930s tended to be biassed toward the cleaner and more colourful subjects; then on the basis of the available colour photos of the coaches in service, I would venture the opinion that the usual appearance of a varnished teak coach was 'visibly soot stained'.

Further images can be found on Steve Banks' site: http://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-an ... ak-coaches

A good call Mike.

The Big Four in Colour also has a good selection. If one can find it at a reasonable price. I believe it was one of the first thirty pound railway books, when published. Mr Jenkinson, John Edgington and myself had a good time putting it together.

The reason for showing the first picture in this thread was a recollection of notes in the PC teak carriage kits of many years ago. As I recall one of the kits was a deep 'Mahogany' red-brown colour, nothing like teak. Was this supposed to be weathered teak? If so it fell well short of the mark. And of course was not weathered at all.

In consideration of the first photo in this thread, it may have a slight blue cast, it was that sort of day.

John

I should add that I do like your original photograph. If you have any more like it (even if the same vehicle) I am sure they would be appreciated.

Mike,

I managed to take shots of all the carriages in the rake, both sides and all in full sun.

Plus some interior shots too.

I will contact you directly, I am not sure Richard will want me to clutter up the Forum with everything.

John

On the contrary, reference shots, especially of interiors in colour are always welcome.

jwealleans wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2017 11:54 am On the contrary, reference shots, especially of interiors in colour are always welcome.

Agreed!

JASd17 wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2017 11:06 pm A good call Mike.

The Big Four in Colour also has a good selection. If one can find it at a reasonable price. I believe it was one of the first thirty pound railway books, when published. Mr Jenkinson, John Edgington and myself had a good time putting it together.

The reason for showing the first picture in this thread was a recollection of notes in the PC teak carriage kits of many years ago. As I recall one of the kits was a deep 'Mahogany' red-brown colour, nothing like teak. Was this supposed to be weathered teak? If so it fell well short of the mark. And of course was not weathered at all.

In consideration of the first photo in this thread, it may have a slight blue cast, it was that sort of day.

John

My copy of that book was a cheapskate's delight from the Railway Book Club. It didn't take long before the offers of books that I thought worth buying ran out....

JASd17 wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2017 11:06 pm The Big Four in Colour ... Mr Jenkinson, John Edgington and myself had a good time putting it together...

Kudos sir, and glad it was good experience. (My own publication experience is more toward the 'weary grind' end, of ensuring every 'i' dotted and 't' crossed in a field strictly for nitpickers, and nothing like as much fun as the railway...)

I find this book such an invaluable resource, not least for all the incidental information accompanying the intended subjects. One picture I feel was slightly 'undersold' is that of B17 2854 at Aylesbury. The view of part of the side of a Metropolitan coach in the background: is that the best colour photo of a pre-group coach in service and still in effectively pre-group condition? 'Tis a lovely thing...

An interior view of TTO 43612, the subject of the first photo in the thread. John

Thanks for posting these pics John.
You have to be careful some of the SV carriages have BR seats.
I notice that from the link provided by Mike to Mr Banks site, he states that the teak panels - A final point to bear in mind is how the varying teak panels were arranged (and painted). Something akin to a chequer-board pattern was employed and at the ends, as seen here, the middle panel was usually the darkest. The same can be seen in several pictures below. , I feel this is a bit of a sweeping statement that's not backed up by the pictures, especially your GNR pic (but that is a preservation view).
As timber is a random thing, dark, medium and light panels will appear in very random patterns. I can't imagine that when built time would have been spent selecting panels from the pile of precut boards to get a chequer board pattern, but I stand to be corrected.

Dave,
given how long and how carefully, at least in pre grouping times, they dried and stored timber, it is pretty certain that they would have
had both time and inclination to get the best effect from the veneer panels they created. By using the kind of pattern that Steve has mentioned
the carriage is more likely to appear a consistent colour along the vehicle.

It almost certainly started with the early 4 wheelers, and then carried on as a normal practice. Don't forget that the first 3 GNR carriage superintendents
Coffin, Griffith and Howlden were "proper coachbuilders" so the practice would have been carried forward by their staff, and available to Gresley at least up to 1922.

Nice pictures John, and as always useful

Paul