Gresley D120 van

[boeing757]

Good morning,
I am building one of these vans in 7mm from an old Kirk kit. A couple of questions if I may:
1. I can't figure out the relationship between sole bar, w iron and leaf spring. My logic is that the spring would be mounted directly below the sole bar, but if that is so where do the w irons locate as they are in front of the spring? The reference photos and drawing I have don't make this clear.
2. I want to finish the van in teak, but model BR period. I assume many stayed in LNER finish well into the BR era, but would they have been re-lettered in the BR style? Any photo evidence?
Thanks for reading this far.
Bob

[jwealleans]

Does this help at all, Bob? I think the J hangers are on the back of the solebar so the spring is actually slightly behind it.

Can't help with the numbering - I have plenty of carriage shots post-1948 still in teak or with 'E' numbers in LNER characters, but none of a D 120.

[MikeTrice]

THe w-iron and spring mountings are fixed behind the solebar. The spring mountings have a right angled bend backwards so the spring can locate behind the w-irons.

[Dave]

Detail picture.
Hope this helps.

Edit - My friend Mr Trice pointed out to me that the info I had placed here regarding my belief that there
were 2 builds with different spring arrangements is wrong. Mike says - Photographic evidence suggests that John is incorrect.

Stratford built 6810; 6820 and York 6842 and E70241E have springs behind and 4 torpedo vents.
Where they do differ is in the rainstrips with York being a curve and Stratford being
straighter and meeting at an apex..

I had a written note but was unsure were I got the info from....I found it came from an Isinglass drawing hence Mikes ref to John.

I hope this clears up any miss information

[65447]

Not that it's directly relevant to the OP but the 1950 Dia. 358 'Thompson' BZ (6-wheeled van), assembled at Stratford from kits of parts, also used the same less common juxtaposition of axleguard and springs.

This is one means of dealing with the situation where non-bogied carriage/coach solebars were set further apart than was found on contemporary wagons and vans but dates back to the very early days of railways when the axleguards were typically fixed to the outside face of the wooden solebars.

[MikeTrice]

That I can provide a picture for:

[MikeTrice]

I understand there were 2 distinct builds of 4 wheel pigeon vans (D120).
4 Roof vents with springs behind the W irons as detail photo, and 3 roof
vents and springs in front.
Hope this helps.

You might be thinking of the D176 vehicles built on reclaimed GNR underframes.

[Dave]

Hi Mike.

No I was thinking about D120s.

The York built (1929) were numbered 6840-6848/50 and 1930 build 6849/51-54 and 767-771.

Edit see post above

[John Palmer]

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29069 is a thread containing a number of photographs of Diag. 120 4-wheel brake no. 6854, which may be useful.

[MikeTrice]

John, I knew I had seen some good underframe photos previously but could not remember where, so thanks for the link.

[boeing757]

Thank you gentlemen for a fantastic response. The Spring/ w iron set up is now crystal clear.
Regarding livery, I will probably play safe and finish the van teak with LNER lettering, they can't all have been painted overnight in 1948 and I suspect some probably lingered for some years in their previous owner's scheme. Should a photo emerge with LNER lettering and BR prefix E that would be easy to incorporate.
Thanks again for your collective assistance.
Bob