The LNER Encyclopedia

Hello
Just a quick question. Does anyone have any line drawings for the 2-10-2 mentioned in the P1 history?(Here:http://www.lner.info/locos/P/p1.php). If so can you please post them on this thread.
Thanks CotN

Never seen a drawing but some time ago a photo appeared in I think 'Railway World'. It looked remarkably like a stretched P2.

What to stretch is the point at issue! I have a never-wazza project in hand which shall be a fusion of a now redundant Hornby 2-10-0 mechanism with the addition of a trailing truck into a GBL A2 body. This requires at least an extra half inch adding to the smokebox length to look decently proportioned, otherwise it has a truly immense expanse of front platform above the somewhat lengthened forward frames.

Good morning all

I believe the 2-10-2 was an A1 boiler with a chassis using 4ft8ins wheels at close 5ft0ins spacing. This would give a P1 with a ten coupled chassis.

It should be possible for neverwazza's to scratchbuild a chassis to suit. The BR 9F chassis with 5ft2in wheels at 5ft5ins spacing would be 7mm too long
(in 00).

Earlswood nob

If the proposal were for a three cylinder type with conjugated valve gear I see problems. Generally with the conjugated valve gear arrangement the closest spacing between the first and second driving wheels was 6' 6" to enable the middle con rod to clear the leading axle. A second issue would be the very short con rods with 5ft wheel spacings. It is possible that divided drive was contemplated but this would still have resulted in a very short con rod for the middle cylinder. I appreciate that Decapod overcame some of these issues but was a complex one off engine!

The very point that I was about to raise. Maybe that was the killer.

Afternoon all

I got the info on the 2-10-2 from the Green Books.

Perhaps, it was originally laid out for a two cylinder loco, but Gresley preferring three cylinder locos, changed to the P1 arrangement.

The P1 and U1 were built around the same time.

The U1 banker was planned as two two cylinder loco units, but Gresley changed it to two three cylinder loco units.

Earlswood nob

Pebbles wrote:If the proposal were for a three cylinder type with conjugated valve gear I see problems. Generally with the conjugated valve gear arrangement the closest spacing between the first and second driving wheels was 6' 6" to enable the middle con rod to clear the leading axle. A second issue would be the very short con rods with 5ft wheel spacings...

In my case it has clearance cranked 1st and 2nd axles, definitely. All hidden inside out of sight. The sign peculiar should be no externally visible balance weights on those wheelsets, as the crank webs may be used for the balancing.

Not entirely sure that cranked axles would work, also three types of varying throw would be required, the throw reducing the closer the axle was to the crosshead. Whilst the two leading cranked axles could possibly clear the con rod when at their lowest position at their highest point - because the diameter of the crank is added to the external radius of the throw - I imagine they would almost certainly impact.

Remember that the rod the crank is clearing isn't static, it moves in synchrony: rod low, crank low; rod high, crank high (or even crosshead present, crank low; crosshead absent, crank high . Successful designs have operated in this way. For sure it needs custom cranking to each axle: but why else do we employ design draughtsmen? This project will keep them nicely occupied with geometry for a few weeks.

Another alternative is the divided rod that goes over and under the axle, but that tends to be heavy, only suitable for very slow machines.

The reference to the photo in Railway World, was in the Apirl 1967 edition, published as an April fools day article, covering railway in the hidden European Country of Ruratiani.

What's more I understand the 2-10-2s are still at work in that backwater....

Tonyaaa wrote:The reference to the photo in Railway World, was in the Apirl 1967 edition, published as an April fools day article, covering railway in the hidden European Country of Ruratiani.

Ah yes it was on an Algrimpelstag special(The Turnip tossing festival) other shots in the article show a ten coupled loco heading for the border at Elsilrac