Did we just lose some messages on the end of this thread?
Richard (paranoid admin)
A dream of Steam
Moderators: 52D, Tom F, Rlangham, Atlantic 3279, Blink Bonny, Saint Johnstoun, richard
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John B
- NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:50 pm
- Location: New Zealand (ex Hornsea)
A dream of steam
I am not sure Richard, though I believe that there were around thirty posts here up to a day or so ago, sorry I can't be more helpful.
Regarding a new build LNER engine choice I have done a quick trawl of the net to see roughly how well the LNER is represented in the number of larger preserved steam engines in the UK.
It makes for depressing reading especially when looking at the figures for the Gurt Wandering Railway.
The operational figures are only approximate. I have also only focused on just four of the larger class GWR locomotives, there are a huge number of other preserved GWR engines, I wonder if this is because of the "Barry effect" ????
The LNER locomotives listed do not constitute a total list but a representative or selective attempt at a (very rough) comparison.
Preserved Castles 4-6-0 8 Two of which are operational
Preserved Halls 4-6-0 18 Five of which are operational
Preserved Kings 4-6-0 3 One of which is operational
Preserved Class 2800 2-8-0 16 One operational (Four never restored since withdrawal)
GWR therefore has a total of 45 preserved locos of which nine are operational
LNER A3 4-6-2 1 One operational
A4 4-6-2 6 One (possibly two) operational
V2 4-6-0 1 One (soon to be) operational
A2 4-6-2 1 Inoperative
B1 4-6-0 2 Two operational
K1 2-6-0 1 Operational
K4 2-6-0 1 Inoperative
D49 4-40 1 Operative
The LNER has 14 preserved locos of which approximately 7 are operational.
The LMS is represented with 13 Black fives of which four are operational and about five nearing overhaul completion! The research got a little tiresome at this point - apologies to the Long Meandering Slow Railway
One interesting sidelight from all this information gathering is that the LNER has approximately 50% of it's preserved locomotives operational whereas the GWR has only 20% operational but with far greater reserves of stock available.
The point is that I am re-evaluating my position on the priorities for "new build" engines as there seems to be an urgent need for an extended and comparative representation of LNER locomotives. I think it would be great to have one other example of all those LNER locomotives listed above and more besides
(in an ideal world) as well as the other totally unrepresented smaller engines. But where to start???
In the light of the paucity of LNER locomotives wouldn't it be great to start building second examples, the question is should they take priority over unrepresented LNER locomotives??
I would probably choose another A3 first and then another V2, that way there would always hopefully be one of these engines available to run on the main line and be operational.
Oh yes, in the light of continued improvement and efficiency of the class
(a very Gresley like approach) "my" A3 would have a double chimney, Kylchap exhaust and German style smoke deflectors
It would be in Brunswick green of course. 
Just thought I would add that in to stir up the traditionalists
Cheers
Regarding a new build LNER engine choice I have done a quick trawl of the net to see roughly how well the LNER is represented in the number of larger preserved steam engines in the UK.
It makes for depressing reading especially when looking at the figures for the Gurt Wandering Railway.
The operational figures are only approximate. I have also only focused on just four of the larger class GWR locomotives, there are a huge number of other preserved GWR engines, I wonder if this is because of the "Barry effect" ????
The LNER locomotives listed do not constitute a total list but a representative or selective attempt at a (very rough) comparison.
Preserved Castles 4-6-0 8 Two of which are operational
Preserved Halls 4-6-0 18 Five of which are operational
Preserved Kings 4-6-0 3 One of which is operational
Preserved Class 2800 2-8-0 16 One operational (Four never restored since withdrawal)
GWR therefore has a total of 45 preserved locos of which nine are operational
LNER A3 4-6-2 1 One operational
A4 4-6-2 6 One (possibly two) operational
V2 4-6-0 1 One (soon to be) operational
A2 4-6-2 1 Inoperative
B1 4-6-0 2 Two operational
K1 2-6-0 1 Operational
K4 2-6-0 1 Inoperative
D49 4-40 1 Operative
The LNER has 14 preserved locos of which approximately 7 are operational.
The LMS is represented with 13 Black fives of which four are operational and about five nearing overhaul completion! The research got a little tiresome at this point - apologies to the Long Meandering Slow Railway
One interesting sidelight from all this information gathering is that the LNER has approximately 50% of it's preserved locomotives operational whereas the GWR has only 20% operational but with far greater reserves of stock available.
The point is that I am re-evaluating my position on the priorities for "new build" engines as there seems to be an urgent need for an extended and comparative representation of LNER locomotives. I think it would be great to have one other example of all those LNER locomotives listed above and more besides
(in an ideal world) as well as the other totally unrepresented smaller engines. But where to start???In the light of the paucity of LNER locomotives wouldn't it be great to start building second examples, the question is should they take priority over unrepresented LNER locomotives??
I would probably choose another A3 first and then another V2, that way there would always hopefully be one of these engines available to run on the main line and be operational.
Oh yes, in the light of continued improvement and efficiency of the class
(a very Gresley like approach) "my" A3 would have a double chimney, Kylchap exhaust and German style smoke deflectors
It would be in Brunswick green of course. Just thought I would add that in to stir up the traditionalists Cheers
John B
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Colombo
- LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
- Posts: 657
- Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:44 pm
- Location: Derbyshire
- Contact:
Richard, John,
An amazing statistic for you:
It was once claimed that there were enough GW engines preserved to run the Sunday passenger service as was in 1963 (or thereabouts), supposing that they were all operational at the same time.
This is both a reflection on the number of GW locos preserved and the paucity of Sunday services at that time.
The GWS at Didcot are benefiting from Swindon standardisation of spare parts and reassembling them in different ways to build alternative types of engines that have missed preservation. What are the opportunities with LNER types? Well we already have an A4 boiler that fits an A3. A new V2 boiler would fit a Thompson A2. If you built a new K4, would the chassis fit a K3? A B1 100A boiler fitted an 02. Possibly a GC Director boiler might fit an A5 and a Q1...and so it goes on.
As regards alternative acronyms such as the Great Way Round, please don't forget the Slow Mouldy and Jolting and the Late and Never Early Railways as well.
Colombo
An amazing statistic for you:
It was once claimed that there were enough GW engines preserved to run the Sunday passenger service as was in 1963 (or thereabouts), supposing that they were all operational at the same time.
This is both a reflection on the number of GW locos preserved and the paucity of Sunday services at that time.
The GWS at Didcot are benefiting from Swindon standardisation of spare parts and reassembling them in different ways to build alternative types of engines that have missed preservation. What are the opportunities with LNER types? Well we already have an A4 boiler that fits an A3. A new V2 boiler would fit a Thompson A2. If you built a new K4, would the chassis fit a K3? A B1 100A boiler fitted an 02. Possibly a GC Director boiler might fit an A5 and a Q1...and so it goes on.
As regards alternative acronyms such as the Great Way Round, please don't forget the Slow Mouldy and Jolting and the Late and Never Early Railways as well.
Colombo
very eastern
if i could choose a loco to build it would be either a J15, i know there is one already but mine would be one of the old Colne Valley engines built with a side cab window and rear cab, or a GER J65, lovely little tank loco and is like the GER version of the J72 or the southern terrior. Would therefore make it a great choice for the preserved CVR or anyother short run preserved line, J65's ran on the old CVR too.
don't forget about the Great Eastern Railway
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richard
- LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
- Posts: 3390
- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:11 pm
- Location: Wichita Falls, Texas
- Contact:
Catching up with the second day of the Fort Worth Show - and YES, I did run a J11
(most of my running was the F59phi-hauled TRE, and my two Union Pacific SD90MAC43s but there was LNER in the form of the J11, and J94 - I find the J94 does very well for a little engine, and my J39 which didn't sound too well)
I think the "operational" figure for the LNER might also be understated.
As well as the V2 and A3 "nearly operational", so are two of the A4s (that would be steamable out of 6), the K4 (emergency repairs turning into an overhaul but I think I heard "aiming for this year"??), and the Q6.
John, I think you're right with the analysis of Barry, also more effort being concentrated in the few surviving LNER engines. Got to have the only A3, V2, etc running. Whilst at least one group with "yet another" Bulleid Pacific was turned down when they asked for lottery money...
If there were only 2-3 Bulleid Pacifics surviving it would be a different story of course.
I also suggest that it isn't coincidence that three of the "new build" projects are LNER - including the first, biggest, and most advanced!
Richard
(most of my running was the F59phi-hauled TRE, and my two Union Pacific SD90MAC43s but there was LNER in the form of the J11, and J94 - I find the J94 does very well for a little engine, and my J39 which didn't sound too well)
I think the "operational" figure for the LNER might also be understated.
As well as the V2 and A3 "nearly operational", so are two of the A4s (that would be steamable out of 6), the K4 (emergency repairs turning into an overhaul but I think I heard "aiming for this year"??), and the Q6.
John, I think you're right with the analysis of Barry, also more effort being concentrated in the few surviving LNER engines. Got to have the only A3, V2, etc running. Whilst at least one group with "yet another" Bulleid Pacific was turned down when they asked for lottery money...
If there were only 2-3 Bulleid Pacifics surviving it would be a different story of course.
I also suggest that it isn't coincidence that three of the "new build" projects are LNER - including the first, biggest, and most advanced!
Richard
Richard Marsden
LNER Encyclopedia
LNER Encyclopedia
How about...
I believe that either a B17 or another D49 would be fantastic. However, for something a little more interesting, I believe that Gresley's experimental "Hush-Hush" W1 in original shape or a booster-enabled C9 would be fantastic.
Also, if we are willing to digress from a steam loco, i reckon another NER No.13 2-Co-2 Electric locomotive would look amazing
Also, if we are willing to digress from a steam loco, i reckon another NER No.13 2-Co-2 Electric locomotive would look amazing
Re: A dream of steam
4472 certainly isn't operational and neither is the K1 remember.John B wrote: LNER A3 4-6-2 1 One operational
A4 4-6-2 6 One (possibly two) operational
V2 4-6-0 1 One (soon to be) operational
A2 4-6-2 1 Inoperative
B1 4-6-0 2 Two operational
K1 2-6-0 1 Operational
K4 2-6-0 1 Inoperative
D49 4-40 1 Operative
I can think of 5: 45407, 45231, 45212, 45110 and 45305 but I have a feeling there is another one lurking somewhere?The LNER has 14 preserved locos of which approximately 7 are operational.
The LMS is represented with 13 Black fives of which four are operational and about five nearing overhaul completion!
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John B
- NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:50 pm
- Location: New Zealand (ex Hornsea)
A Dream of steam
Colombo et al,
Yes! standardisation of parts has certainly become an important part of the preservation of (fasten your seat belts, here come the acronyms again) God’s Wonderful Railway locomotives in such large numbers and it probably would have helped the LNER preservation movement if a similar plan had been allowed to come full fruition. I believe that Thompson was the only LNER CME who made any really serious effort to standardise parts and fittings (as well as getting rid of the third Gresley cylinder in his reconstructed engines).
Yes! I had indeed also had heard of the Late and Never Early Railway, but the Stratford Midland Joint rlwy. ??? What about the Soporific Railway, or the Lame Mangy & Sad railway, or the Hell & Beyond Railway to say nothing of the Northern Eckythump Rascals railways?
Richard, what are the other two new LNER builds apart from the A1 (I have heard of the proposed G5, was the other an F5??)
Matt, here’s a hopefully correct operational list, thanks to you and others who pointed out those “Inoperative” locos. Here I must confess that my sources are not current, I had relied on information mainly from the Preserved Railway Database: http://ukhrail.uel.ac.uk/rlylocos.html
--Class - Wheel arr. - No. Preserved - Status
LNER A3 --- 4-6-2 - 1 --- Inoperative
------ A4 --- 4-6-2 - 6 --- One Operative
------ V2 --- 4-6-0 - 1 --- Inoperative
------ A2 --- 4-6-2 - 1 --- Inoperative
------ B1 --- 4-6-0 - 2 --- Two operative
------ K1 --- 2-6-0 - 1 --- Inoperative
------ K4 --- 2-6-0 - 1 --- Inoperative
------ D49 - 4-4-0 - 1 --- Operative
Total = 4 Operative LNER locomotives !??!?
Does anyone know of any other larger operational LNER locomotives we can add to this list? I suppose the list would always be in a constant state of adjustment by it’s very nature as engines required either repair or maintenance.
Of the LMS Black 5’s, these are operational - 45337 45407 45110 45212 (According to PRD) plus 45231 & 45305 according to your sources Matt, that would be six all told. There are also six black fives inoperative due to being currently overhauled or restored (According to PRD), though two of those 45231 and 45305 are on your list as operative.
Oh what fun I am having
Yes! standardisation of parts has certainly become an important part of the preservation of (fasten your seat belts, here come the acronyms again) God’s Wonderful Railway locomotives in such large numbers and it probably would have helped the LNER preservation movement if a similar plan had been allowed to come full fruition. I believe that Thompson was the only LNER CME who made any really serious effort to standardise parts and fittings (as well as getting rid of the third Gresley cylinder in his reconstructed engines).
Yes! I had indeed also had heard of the Late and Never Early Railway, but the Stratford Midland Joint rlwy. ??? What about the Soporific Railway, or the Lame Mangy & Sad railway, or the Hell & Beyond Railway to say nothing of the Northern Eckythump Rascals railways?
Richard, what are the other two new LNER builds apart from the A1 (I have heard of the proposed G5, was the other an F5??)
Matt, here’s a hopefully correct operational list, thanks to you and others who pointed out those “Inoperative” locos. Here I must confess that my sources are not current, I had relied on information mainly from the Preserved Railway Database: http://ukhrail.uel.ac.uk/rlylocos.html
--Class - Wheel arr. - No. Preserved - Status
LNER A3 --- 4-6-2 - 1 --- Inoperative
------ A4 --- 4-6-2 - 6 --- One Operative
------ V2 --- 4-6-0 - 1 --- Inoperative
------ A2 --- 4-6-2 - 1 --- Inoperative
------ B1 --- 4-6-0 - 2 --- Two operative
------ K1 --- 2-6-0 - 1 --- Inoperative
------ K4 --- 2-6-0 - 1 --- Inoperative
------ D49 - 4-4-0 - 1 --- Operative
Total = 4 Operative LNER locomotives !??!?
Does anyone know of any other larger operational LNER locomotives we can add to this list? I suppose the list would always be in a constant state of adjustment by it’s very nature as engines required either repair or maintenance.
Of the LMS Black 5’s, these are operational - 45337 45407 45110 45212 (According to PRD) plus 45231 & 45305 according to your sources Matt, that would be six all told. There are also six black fives inoperative due to being currently overhauled or restored (According to PRD), though two of those 45231 and 45305 are on your list as operative.
Oh what fun I am having
John B
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richard
- LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
- Posts: 3390
- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:11 pm
- Location: Wichita Falls, Texas
- Contact:
Yes a Holden F5:
http://www.holdenf5.co.uk/
They're making progress - the smokebox has been ordered!
(last time I looked, they'd collated plans and ordered the wheels)
re. operational engines - the score will be much better at the end of the year as things like the V2, A3, two A4s, etc will be running.
For more LNER engines, there's the Q6, Q7, and one of the 8Fs was ex-LNER.
The Q6 should be running before the end of the year as well.
Further slightly smaller engines: B12, J15, J21, J27.
The J27 is quietly working out the end of its ticket at Shildon. J21 to be restored to running condition soon.
I think the J15 is in running condition, but the B12 is being overhauled?
Richard
http://www.holdenf5.co.uk/
They're making progress - the smokebox has been ordered!
(last time I looked, they'd collated plans and ordered the wheels)
re. operational engines - the score will be much better at the end of the year as things like the V2, A3, two A4s, etc will be running.
For more LNER engines, there's the Q6, Q7, and one of the 8Fs was ex-LNER.
The Q6 should be running before the end of the year as well.
Further slightly smaller engines: B12, J15, J21, J27.
The J27 is quietly working out the end of its ticket at Shildon. J21 to be restored to running condition soon.
I think the J15 is in running condition, but the B12 is being overhauled?
Richard
Richard Marsden
LNER Encyclopedia
LNER Encyclopedia
They most definately are operational, 45231 and 45305 both became mainline registered last year and were very consistant performers, 45305 had a little accident the other week involving a set of coaches and a bent bufferbeam but all has been rectified although it must gain it's mainline status back, and 45231 failed on the first day of the Mid Hants Gala last week!
As for 45337, that won't be going anywhere under it's own power for a good few years!
As for 45337, that won't be going anywhere under it's own power for a good few years!
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Wandering1500
- LNER J94 0-6-0ST Austerity
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:44 am
- Location: Lancashire, England
