IVATT LARGE ATLANTICS

[kudu]

I doubt that. It was all down to thermodynamics. What about all the GWR types with only 2 cylinders?

No-one has claimed that accommodating a middle cylinder is the ONLY reason to use a taper boiler, so the existence of outside-cylinder locos with taper boilers is irrelevant to the argument - especially if not designed by Raven or Gresley.

[Mickey]

Strange (or is it?) how some locomotives were less thought of than the rest of there class mates?. This was certainly the case with one of Ivatt's original large boilered Atlantics no.276 a locomotive regarded by some G.N.R footplate crews as a locomotive of 'Ill omen' even under L.N.E.R. re-numbering a locomotive still viewed by some men with suspicion?. The locomotive eventually ending it's days on the ex-G.C.R. section of the L.N.E.R. were it's past wasn't known. I believe that there was a Midland Railway (compound?) no.1010 that was also viewed in a simular way possibly with even 'supernatural' overtones?.

[manna]

G'day Gents
Class 31, No D5622 was a engine that KX crews tried to avoid, She? killed her crew at Hatfield (1969?) often failed on shed.
manna

[StevieG]

Did 'the loco' actually kill them? Or was it how it was driven while taking a mis-read (mis?-)route?

[rob237]

Strange (or is it?) how some locomotives were less thought of than the rest of there class mates?. This was certainly the case with one of Ivatt's original large boilered Atlantics no.276 a locomotive regarded by some G.N.R footplate crews as a locomotive of 'Ill omen' even under L.N.E.R. re-numbering a locomotive still viewed by some men with suspicion?...

Almost certainly a major reason for the "ill omen" would be the Grantham accident of 1906...

http://www.wising-up.co.uk/articles/Gra ... 201906.htm

Cheers
Robt P.

[Mickey]

Yes you have it rob237 Grantham 1906 and Ivatt atantic no.276.

[manna]

G'day Gents

Stevie G, the story that I have been lead to believe, is that D5622 was working the Welwyn wheat train, a very heavy class 9 unbraked train from Temple Mills to WGC, in those days (1969- I think) there was a As Required, shunt at Hatfield, on this night they had to shunt at Hatfield, after they had finished shunting there train, they were dropping down to the outlet signal, when the loco picked up her wheels on the wet rail, the signalman seeing that the loco was being pushed by it's train attempted to change the points to let the train out onto a through road, but the train had just passed onto the point, and the signalman was unable to do any more, the train entered a short dead end siding hitting a plate wagon in the siding, the plate wagon was up against the buffer stops, which in turn were right against a brick abutment of an over bridge, the plate wagon jumped over the loco's buffer beam and came up through the cab, pushing half the cab and the crew almost onto the roof of D5622,the Welwyn wheat train nearly always ran to about 600tons, which was a very heavy job for a class 31, you very rarely kept time, but at the time of the morning that it ran it did'nt really matter that much, and as I've said before, it was usually routed mainline from Finsbury Pk.
You could always tell D5622 apart from any other cl31 as the large switchboard on the back of the cabin wall was a flat board instead of indented.

Hope that helps
PS I have a couple of pics taken on Eastleigh shed of a couple of diesels that have been in collisions.
manna

[Mickey]

I think the date may have been in 1966 manna but i could be wrong?. Wasn't both the driver & secondman killed on the Brush type-2?.

[StevieG]

Thanks v.m. for that manna. Lots of detail there I hadn't appreciated at the time.

[Acknowledging that this has nothing to do with this thread's title, I'll just say -] I'm sure this was the same incident that I unexpectedly found on turning up at Hatfield one Sat.morning to visit the signalman in No.2 box. Needless to say I went nowhere near any box there, nor onto any railway land, that day, but 'somewhere' I have a few colour slides I took of the scene from the boundary fence of the slightly higher ground, close by on the down side.
(As they definitely were colour shots, I can't put the date any earlier than '68, as that's when I switched from B&W Neg.film to Kodachrome II.)

Apart from the train having apparently gone too far/fast up the "Spur", why it had happened and that there were casualties, was not evident to us onlookers at the time, but the damage that was obvious, to vehicles, was quite substantial - I think at least one van was on its roof and part collapsed.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

Sorry about changing the subject also I was,nt sure about the date either, hence the ? but as far as I know the facts of the incident are as true as I know them to be, I have spoken to a fair few locomen who attended the accident, with brakedown trains etc.
Micky, both the crew died in the crash, I think the fireman was only 19, I'm surprised they did'nt jump off, seeing the train was only moving slowly, probably not much more than 10-15 MPH.

manna

[Mickey]

I always liked the look of the original G.N.R. Ivatt LARGE boiler Atantics although the little that i have read on them i think they were hard work for a fireman and also i believe they were prone to alot of 'shaking going on' on the footplate at speed?. Didn't the coal from the tender eventually end up all over the footplate as well?. They always looked like an engineman's engine to me.

[Andy W]

When I spoke in the 1970's to some KX enginemen who had spent some of their youth on the Atlantics, they said they had a gentle rolling motion about them which got more pronounced at speed.

p.s. the date for D5622 at Hatfield was 23rd March 1968.

[Mickey]

the date for D5622 at Hatfield was 23rd March 1968.

Yes i was probably thinking of when bridge no.62 (Wrestler's bridge) collapsed just north of Hatfield in 1966.

[Atlantic 3279]

Sorry to stir things up a bit here, especially as it is off-topic, but previously posted we have:

No-one has claimed that accommodating a middle cylinder is the ONLY reason to use a taper boiler

Really? So what did Bill say just prior to that? See below.

[Atlantic 3279]

A1s had tapered boilers only because it was impossible to fit the middle cylinder with a parallel boiler.

That sounds to me like a fairly definite claim of an "only reason" in that particular case, which was the whole reason for the point being made, I believe.