N2's, J50's and J52's

[manna]

G'Day Gents
Yes, I know where it is, so if anyone wants to have a guess, go right ahead!!
manna

[StevieG]

....Fair enough. I'll stay quiet for a while as well then.

[Flamingo]

Well as no-one has come up with a location for your J50 picture, I'll have a guess. The gradient is a bit of a giveaway so it's descending Holloway Bank. The up local with the bunker first N2 has just passed Holloway South Down Box. Brian Morrison has had pictures published at or about this location. Are those trolleybus wires I see on the road overbridge?

[manna]

G'Day Gents
And 'Flamingo' wins the coconut!! The reason I said it was an unusual location, is that the photographer is probably standing under the 'goods flyover' just before the entrance to the up 'Copenhagen tunnel' an area the railway companies/ BR would NOT allow the general public to be at any time, due to the proximity of the tunnel mouths and the density of traffic.( I came through there once at app 70-75mph early one morning, scarey )
I think that there are trolly bus wires on the bridge, I thought they marks on the picture?
Also give Stevie G a coconut as I'm pretty sure that he knew the location as well
manna

[StevieG]

Indeed!
Yes there used to be 'Trolleys' crossing the Caledonian Road bridge.
The general features of the view were instantly recognisable, but particularly the signals as South Down box's Down Fast line Homes, with North Down's Distants below, and indicating all clear 'down the 'main' ', while, unusually, standing between the Down Fast (DF) and Up Fast (UF) lines' tracks.
The J50 is on the Up Slow, with, to the right, the long connection from the Up Goods/Up Coal scissors crossover (at South Up box, north of the Caledonian Road) on its way to end by joining the J50's line ; and the just visible N2 is on the UF - where it would have to be if en route to gain the Up Relief at Belle Isle in order to reach KX platforms 6-15 or the Milk Yard.
Looking, far right, at the position, height and alignment of the small portion of the Up Goods flyover's approach, it's possible the photo was taken from a little north of the flyover, though it looks too close to the UF to have been taken from a train on the DF, but not sufficiently above the UF to have been from a train there (and as previously stated by lead_plug, one shouldn't have been there anyway if the N2's approach is legal).
From the camera's height it looks to have been a little higher than the average lens wizard (step-ladder?) : Possibly by this point, the 'six-foot' between the DF and UF was becoming significantly wider, prior to passing through their respective 'arches' of 'Calley' Rd. bridge.

[Flamingo]

Hang on to the coconut, I'm not that keen on them. Maybe you can answer this question for me though. I have a memory of travelloing in on a local from Palmers Green one Sunday morning, I thnik we were off on a trip to Swindon works or somewhere like that. Anyway the train we were on went over that goods flyover and used the normally freight only one of Copehagen's 3 tunnels, which I think was at a slightly higher level than the usual ones. I thought that goods tunnel was only for trains going into KX Goods depot but on this occasion we still arrived in the suburban side of KX passenger station. Is that possible or have I dreamed it?

[manna]

G'Day Gents
Flamingo,you can count yourself lucky, it is unusual to run passenger trains in to the 'Cross' that way but not impossible, probably doing some work on the tunnels, everything would be normal until you got under the North London line, then it would be wrong line working, through the 'Down' Gasworks tunnel, to access Kings Cross, I can see the route in my head but can't explain it, but you've got to go down the line that gives access to the goods yard, there will be a few on here that will be able to explain it better.
manna

[Flamingo]

It was the one and only time I ever arrived at KX that way, and as almost anything could happen on a Sunday morning it probably was via the route you described. Until now I thought I must have imagined it.

Re Holloway Bank pictures, Brian Morrison was the expert on pictures there so this link might be of interesr;
http://www.railwayherald.org/magazine/i ... ent&id=334

Also it's well worth downloading the weekly issues of Railway Herald, costs nothing to get them, for decent up to date news and pictures and saves money on buying the hard copy magazines.

[hq1hitchin]

Hang on to the coconut, I'm not that keen on them. Maybe you can answer this question for me though. I have a memory of travelloing in on a local from Palmers Green one Sunday morning, I thnik we were off on a trip to Swindon works or somewhere like that. Anyway the train we were on went over that goods flyover and used the normally freight only one of Copehagen's 3 tunnels, which I think was at a slightly higher level than the usual ones. I thought that goods tunnel was only for trains going into KX Goods depot but on this occasion we still arrived in the suburban side of KX passenger station. Is that possible or have I dreamed it?

Did you go up the North London Incline (just beyond Goods and Mineral Box) to gain access to ye olde North London Line, thence to Acton Wells Jcn and down the Poplar lines onto the GW main line? Sounds quite feasible to me

[StevieG]

Flamingo,
If you definitely arrived in the suburban side at KX, then I think it must have been as surmised by Manna.
Probably signalled normally as far as Holloway South Up (unless whatever was afoot forced your train to use non-passenger lines from further back - like Finsbury No.4). Then Up Goods from HSU through Copenhagen Tunnel to Goods & Mineral's gantry of seven Home signals (as occasionally glimpsed in the 'proper' version of "The Ladykillers"), also signalled fairly normally (there could have been special instructions about having more than the usual section of line clear/points set a certain way, before the signalman accepted a passenger train; but this wasn't a normally Permissively worked section anyway).

From there, it would probably have been a modified form of Single Line Working, - past the Home signals (10/11/54/16/2/4) all at Danger, 'up' (steeply down) the Down South London Goods line, to join the Down Slow at the north end of Gasworks Tunnel (the Down Main No.1 could also have been accessed, but such further complication would probably have been avoided for this sort of working if possible), and on, up the Down Slow through the tunnel to KX, all without signals, until coming to 118 'dolly' (disc) at the emergence from the tunnel right beside 'Passenger Loco', then on into whichever platform it was (11-15 could be reached from this point. If you had instead traversed the DM1 through Gasworks, absolutely anywhere in and around the station could've been reached, except for the Up Moorgate line from York Road platform).

[Flamingo]

Thank you for a very comprehensive explanation. The only part I really remember was crossing the goods flyover into the freight tunnel. After that the subtleties escape me but we did arrive somewhere on the suburban side. It must have happened in the late 1950s and through the mists of time I came to believe I must have dreamed it.

[manna]

G'Day Gents
Hitchin, your mention of the North London incline,it was there, seen it many times, but have never seen any train use it, I,ve even worked goods trains to Acton yard, from KX goods yard, but via Clarence yard (run round) Dalston Junc (run round) then on to Acton, would have been so much easier, to use the North London incline, and save at least an hour in getting there. Is there anybody out there, that knows why, it was'nt used???
manna

[StevieG]

Train load (weights / lengths) problems? - It was pretty steep.
Or traction Route Availability restrictions?

[manna]

G'Day Gents
Have posted a pic of a GN 0-6-0ST, anybody know anything about this loco, it looks like a J52 with a few detail differances, coal bunker etc, thanks
Also, anyone have a list of N2's at KX and Hornsey in the 1930's, thanks again
manna

[Bill Bedford]

G'Day Gents
Have posted a pic of a GN 0-6-0ST, anybody know anything about this loco, it looks like a J52 with a few detail differances, coal bunker etc, thanks

GN 610 built 1877 as GN J17 with 4' 0.5" domeless boilers 7'3" x 7'7" wb
rebuilt 1897 with 4'5" domed boiler became class LNE J56