So what shall we name the new P2?

[manna]

G'day Gents

Awww. name it William Wallace, but it's not allowed to run south of York !!


Me, I'm staying right where I am.

manna

[cthompson]

I'm a little surprised that no-one's suggested 'Duke of Edinburgh' yet. Hmmm.... on second thoughts, maybe I'm not! At any rate, there's probably enough nobility on the main line as it is, what with Gloucester and Earl of Mount Thingy.

An interchangeable front end sounds an intriguing prospect. Assuming piston valves and Walschaerts valve gear, then of course only Earl Marischal from the original names would fit with a locomotive that could run in original and semi-streamlined forms (notwithstanding other proposed modifications). Just out of interest, does anybody else think that the large smoke deflectors fitted to no. 2002 conferred any aesthetic benefit? I rather like the way they "beefed up" the front end appearance but I suspect I might be something of a solitary voice here....

[LNER Fan 60008]

Has the A1 trust said anything about it?

[Bill Bedford]

What do you mean by Northumbria?

Actually I mean that England need to be devolved into a number of smaller units each catering for 5-10 million people. This would make the political classes much more diverse than they are now and prevent the UK government being "captured" by outside influences that don't have the country's best interests at heart.

If you don't like Northumbria, you could have Bernicia or Deira or even Elmet.

Just Bring Back the Heptarcy

[Atlantic 3279]

Heptarchy? So can we develop the principle of the ancient Saxon heptarchy to its fullest currently understood extent, then perhaps I can delare my true nationality as Gaina or Lindisfara, being a native of the sub-Kingdom of Lindsey? That would save me from the eternal problem of whether to mis-describe myself as a Northumbrian, an East Midlander or an East Anglian, when NONE off those designations actually fit this area, yet petty "organisers" persist in trying to slot us into one or other of those inappropriate boxes!

Since we are now delving into pre-Norman history, then I suggest that if only the P2 had a connection with my home area, consideration could be given to "Havelock the Dane" as a name.

[Bill Bedford]

Heptarchy? So can we develop the principle of the ancient Saxon heptarchy to its fullest currently understood extent, then perhaps I can delare my true nationality as Gaina or Lindisfara, being a native of the sub-Kingdom of Lindsey?

Yep, all England's problems can be traced back to allowing foreigners to be it's Kings.

[jwealleans]

Starting with a Scotsman in 1603.

[kudu]

Starting with a Scotsman in 1603.

Forgotten 1066?

I will settle for any name for the P2 so long as I can neither pronounce it nor spell it. That would give it the necessary authenticity in my book.

Kudu

[jwealleans]

Code: Select all

Forgotten 1066?

On the contrary, I'm very familiar with it and the Norwegian invasion of Yorkshire is a shamefully neglected period of history.

It's a personal opinion but in the long run the Norman monarchy brought more benefit than harm to England. They didn't do Wales or Ireland much good, but Bill specifically stated England.

It rather amuses me that with all his posturing and appeals to the proud history of Scotland, Alec Salmond overlooks the fact that when the King of Scotland was offered the chance to move to England in 1603 he jumped at it and couldn't get there fast enough. I'm tempted to ask whether, in the unlikely event he does manage to obtain 'independence' (whatever that really means) he'll be taking his monarchy with him.

[52A]

How about Royal Foolish Fusilier or Royal Arse Hortillary?

[cthompson]

Interesting excursion into political history here! I believe John Prescott (remember him?!) tried to re-establish the old kingdoms a few years ago and call them elected regional assemblies. The good folk of the north east told him where to go IIRC. Maybe an English assembly (West Lothian question and all that) would have been a safer bet?

Anyway, this is rather off-topic. At its greatest extent, Northumbria extended to the Firth of Forth, taking in what is now the Scottish Borders and Lothian. Maybe a name for a P2 which would be acceptable to Scots and Sassenachs alike?

[Atlantic 3279]

Oh dear, a digreesion into politics and history again, but I must....

Not surprising that the people told Prezzer where to stick his regional assemblies, as not only were they undemocratic quangos, but also they were NOT a re-creation of the old Kingdoms. Regions were drawn up based on Hezzer's purely imaginary "modernised" counties of 1974. These false counties put people in many places into a new entity in which they had only a minority voice and no historic connection or allegiance, for example he committed the utter folly of sticking northern Lincolnshire into Hull's little empire, Pennine Yorkies into Lancashire or Cumbria, and so on. Shoving some of those same people into historically alien regions was bound to be a further unpopular move. I'm glad that others objected too!

Now a Northumbria partly embracing the lowlands of Scotland might help to put to bed the myth of genuinely separate and in some way racially and linguistically different peoples either side of the Cheviots. The English and the lowland Scots are from exactly the same stock, and even the Gaelic speaking Highlanders are not nearly as different as the rabble-rousing SNP would like to suggest!

[cthompson]

You took my comment a little too literally! I was referring to the principle of regional government rather than the recreation of historical boundaries which, of course, they were not.

As a native of Grimsby, I'm infuriated when northern Lincolnshire is repeatedly lumped in with "Yorkshire and Humber" which, as you point out, has no historical precedent and usually means that it gets forgotten about completely. The anathema that was Humberside showed all that was wrong with such tendencies.

I'm favouring "Elizabeth of Glamis" at the moment. Republic/Monarchy debate, anyone.....?

[strang steel]

On the slightly tangenital subject of the real P2s, there is a negative on Ebay at the moment but it is a little out of the price range permitted by my financial manager.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Railway-Negat ... 1014wt_924

I thought that it might interest someone here

[manna]

G'Day Gents

When I see a wonderful picture like that, I always think of the lost opportunity, that these locos should have been brought south during the war years, to haul the grossly overloaded express's between KX and Doncaster. How long before the time machine is invented

manna