Just found this from the 1938 RO volume you have lent me [p.336]...
"4494 came off plant 21/9/38 painted blue, so completing the repainting of the A4's.... Both 4494 and 4902, which has recently received a light repair, have the background of their nameplates painted light red. Two months before, 4488/91 had their nameplates similarly treated, and this touch of red provided a pleasing contrast to the otherwise unbroken stretch of blue, in addition to improving the legibility of the chromium nameplates".
Perhaps a 'policy decision' from late 1938 onwards?
I've heard mention of light red before, but for me it doesn't look right and match what I've seen in photographs....I appreciate photographs can't be relied on. Here is 4466 in 1939. https://www.flickr.com/photos/swift-valley/4169595990/
I'm sure I read that the commonwealth A4s had the background colour matching the wheels. Anyhow, this is how my 4466 currently looks, and for me it looks right.
I shall be doing full outdoor photos tomorrow and writing up what I have done. For me it looks better then compare to the Fox Red plates she originally had below.
Tom Foster Modelling the North Eastern Area of the LNER - 1935-1939
I thought that I would have a look through Yeadon's Register Appendix 1 to see what it has to say on the subject of nameplate colours, and the answer is nothing at all! I learnt that from 1938 Gill Sans was to be used rather than the wood block letters used for the sand casting and that BR changed the typeface from GS light to GS medium from 1950.
There are usefully several colour plates containing examples of various nameplates including those fitted to some A4s. Interestingly the red background used for 'Empire of India' is much darker, verging towards maroon.
One would have thought that the pedantic Yeadon would have covered the material (brass, steel, chromed, etc.) and the background colours used, but a wonderful opportunity to record these at the same time as the locomotives that carried them has been lost.
Well, I can confirm another A4 with red background in the late 1930s.
Sparrow Hawk, after blowing this photo up.
Plus as LNER4479 has stated, 4494 Osprey came out of works in September 1938 with red plates, so the question now is....what A4s, if any DIDN"T have red plates!
Tom Foster Modelling the North Eastern Area of the LNER - 1935-1939
2750 wrote:Sparrow Hawk, after blowing this photo up.
To me it looks black with a slight yellowing effect from what I guess is a cast brass number plate.
Alan
Hi Alan, have you blown it up to full size?
I can see red there, which corresponds to the red colour on Herring Gull, Wild Swan and Kingfishe. Plus 4494 documentated as having red plates in 1938 off Works. For me, I think this is strong evidence that Doncaster had standardised on red plates for Garter Blue A4s.
Tom Foster Modelling the North Eastern Area of the LNER - 1935-1939
There should be no doubt about the Coronation and West Riding locomotives as the paint diagram Q110-1 is available from the NRM. It shows 4492 in blue with red wheels and red backed nameplates. The stated paint colours are Garter Blue and Coronation Red and the inference is that the nameplates were the dark (almost maroon) Coronation Red. The drawing also has 4498 pencilled on it, presumably as an instruction to the paint shop for 4498s 1939 repaint. The General Purpose locos, i.e the other 27, probably started with black plates as the standard paint diagram for the green engines, and I have always assumed that Doncaster would have referred to the old diagrams when Mallard was restored with black plates in 1963. There must at that time have been personnel who were in the works in 1938 that would remember the liveries used at then so this was surely correct. The red plates on GP engines must have had official sanction as Doncaster was quite precious about adherence to the drawings and there is evidence of sheds being reprimanded for painting nameplates red in the 50's when black was the official colour.
Q110-1 also shows the nameplates, spectacle plates and whistle chromium plated and the retaining rings to the cab side windows in aluminium. These all reverted to brass in later years, except of course for the nameplates on 4498 that had (and still has) stainless steel cut out letters and surround screwed to a bronze backplate.
One of those things then I suppose. I've blown it up further, and can definitely see a dark red at the front of the name plate. It's a shame that this wasn't better documented at the time.
Not counting Sparrow Hawk, which in all fairness is very hard to tell. I have four examples of bird names with red plates.
Tom Foster Modelling the North Eastern Area of the LNER - 1935-1939
