Dave wrote:Thanks Sawdust for your thoughts, all welcome.
As mentioned earlier I'm certain of the roof pipework for a 1928/29 as built vehicle, but not for a post 1930 modified one. Since my last reply to your filler pipes info I've looked through my drawings.
This is just a guess based on the info I have, and is a bit better than last time.
2 Filler pipes 1 either side of the north end gangway, connected to the toilet tank. Body side filling pipes run internally up onto the roof, then externally to the tank fillers, 2 Pipes per filler, short runs. These pipes seem to come out of the roof on the corridor side.
Still looking
That makes sense Dave,the Thompson CL has centrally located fillers. So it is something they did.
sawdust wrote:Nice vents Mick! I've never seen a tank with a filler pipe on one side only though.
Sawdust.
I suspect that the photographic evidence has been misread. There are cold and warm water tanks in the roof which as Dave has stated are filled from pipes running up through the coach body. To let air out of those tanks there are three vent pipes that exit the tanks and the roof that then go towards the centre of the coach. On some coaches all three are joined together by a pipe running from the inner vent to the coach end and down the side of the corridor connector on one side only. On other coaches the inner vent simply has a hook bent in it at the end and a small bent sheet cover over it, with the remaining two pipes venting to the end.
You are correct that toilet filler pipes have two feeds. Sometimes they are taken over the roof to the filler caps and later through the end within the roof space. I believe the filler cap itself was eventially blanked off with the internally routed pipes.
sawdust wrote:Nice vents Mick! I've never seen a tank with a filler pipe on one side only though.
Sawdust.
I suspect that the photographic evidence has been misread. There are cold and warm water tanks in the roof which as Dave has stated are filled from pipes running up through the coach body. To let air out of those tanks there are three vent pipes that exit the tanks and the roof that then go towards the centre of the coach. On some coaches all three are joined together by a pipe running from the inner vent to the coach end and down the side of the corridor connector on one side only. On other coaches the inner vent simply has a hook bent in it at the end and a small bent sheet cover over it, with the remaining two pipes venting to the end.
You are correct that toilet filler pipes have two feeds. Sometimes they are taken over the roof to the filler caps and later through the end within the roof space. I believe the filler cap itself was eventially blanked off with the internally routed pipes.
The reason for the long vent pipes to the roof centre is to maximise the water capacity as much as possible I suspect, 3087 did have a long vent to the roof centre but it got changed sorting out a leak I seem to remember. I wonder if the reason that they connected the breather pipes together was that if one tank filled any overflow would top up the others, while keeping the cold and warm tank contents separate? But then why on some did they only connect two together?
TTO 56856 built 1938 with internal roof filler pipes has a large wooden plug on a chain in it's roof top filler, all the others are just capped with a plate. Interestingly they were still building Thompson's with roof top fillers with zinc strainers in, in 1950. I wonder if any of those were ever used in anger!
How were the warm tanks heated? And were they heated individually or as one? Could it be that the joined pipes are more important as expansion pipes than breather pipes? Or do you just call them warm tanks because they feed the boiler?
sawdust wrote:
How were the warm tanks heated? And were they heated individually or as one? Could it be that the joined pipes are more important as expansion pipes than breather pipes? Or do you just call them warm tanks because they feed the boiler?
Sawdust.
I refer to them as warm tanks because that is what the official drawings call them. They were joined together and heated by a steam pipe passing through them presumably fed off from the main steam pipe under the vehicle.
I'd love to see a drawing of the warm tanks! I want to know if they had thermostatic valves to control the admission of steam like the toilet water heaters.
So I think the connected tank vents must be to allow for expansion then. Where does the pipe end? Is it at underframe level?
sawdust wrote:I'd love to see a drawing of the warm tanks! I want to know if they had thermostatic valves to control the admission of steam like the toilet water heaters.
So I think the connected tank vents must be to allow for expansion then. Where does the pipe end? Is it at underframe level?
Sawdust.
The individual tank drawings are pretty boring. The following is far more informative.
This is the closest I have for a Composite Restaurant Car of 1936:
No it doesn't look like there is any thermostatic control on the steam supply, so in theory the water in the warm tanks could reach boiling point. The last thing you'd want was scalding hot water cascading off the roof. Where is the end of the vent pipe? Not where it could spray a shunter undoing the pipes between the coaches with hot water I bet.
sawdust wrote:Where is the end of the vent pipe? Not where it could spray a shunter undoing the pipes between the coaches with hot water I bet.
Sawdust.
sawdust wrote:I want to know if they had thermostatic valves to control the admission of steam like the toilet water heaters.
Sawdust.
There is a 1/2" screw down valve (national radiator No 120) shown on the feed from the steam pipe. No sign of anything "thermostatic" in the circuit.
Fantastic stuff Mike! Are there also cross sections of the passenger compartment? Where were all these 10c drawings hiding? Because John Curtis didn't come across them in his cataloguing of the LNER C & W drawings at York.
sawdust wrote:Where is the end of the vent pipe? Not where it could spray a shunter undoing the pipes between the coaches with hot water I bet.
Sawdust.
sawdust wrote:Where were all these 10c drawings hiding? Because John Curtis didn't come across them in his cataloguing of the LNER C & W drawings at York.
Sawdust.
As stated previously they are not Dia10C but of a Composite Restaurant Car or 1936.
Yes the D10c has a different pipe layout.
Sawdust I will update the drawing list I sent to you for the D10C, and send it to you. The drawings listed are cross ref'd from the GA drawing and working through all the drawings listed and those listed on them etc etc and the list keeps growing.
Mike you will get your boring copy too.
mick b wrote:Campling LNER Coaches has a picture of a 10c (43040) taken when new this clearly shows a pipe at the kitchen end going down to the rear of the coach.
Just to correct the situation here the photo in question is of a Dia 10C without the filler pipes. What you can see on the roof line is the vent pipe from the two warm water tanks traveling to the end of the coach and then running down beside the corridor connection. The other pipe by the toilet filler is the vent from the cistern which travels up from near the end of the coach and passes the toilet filler.
The interior of the later D144 is almost identical to the D10C so for pipework I would follow the D144 scheme, a number of photos of which appear in the NRM archives.
