Scotsman overhaul progress

[2002EarlMarischal]

I thought the "spare boiler" was the Type 107 (A4 boiler) which 4472 carried up until recently of course? Since sold to Jeremy Hosking.

[Horsetan]

Wouldn't it be cheaper in the long run to build a brand new A3?

Just a thought.

[60800]

I think the 'spare' 107 has been installed in Bittern over the last few months. Either that, or it's gonna be put in over the 2012/13 winter service

[Hatfield Shed]

Wouldn't it be cheaper in the long run to build a brand new A3?...

A thought that has occurred to a good many I should think, and count me in. Given the money that has been shovelled at the old un, it would have been possible to build a new replacement, but what to build? The A3 was only a step along the road, and better was to come. A4s there are aplenty. Personally I would go for a kylchap ejector fitted V2, updated with roller bearings and an eight wheel tender and name it Flying McScotsman: clearly not a straight copy of what went before but a rational step onward from the last large Gresley design.

[Blink Bonny]

Ay up!

Why not fill in one of the whistling gaps in the preserved ranks. A V4? A V1 or V3? Oooooh, a Tango.

Shall we dance?

[Atlantic 3279]

How about going for more unusual tastes with some Jazz or Ragtime instead?

If we're fantasizing, then I'd certainly be interested (but I might be the only one) if a proposal came up for a Straight-Eight, a Long Tom (with K2 boiler please), a big North Eastern tank engine, something ex-GC such as a Coronation Tank, a Zeppelin, a Pom-Pom or one of their mixed traffic 4-6-0s, or.....returning to Doncaster, how about Atlantic 3279 in one of its rebuilt forms

[Hatfield Shed]

Wonderful and romantic fun, but of course not the principal purpose of a museum set up to preserve existing artefacts. Really FS should be an exhibit: any machine has a finite life once its components reach an age (dependent on the design characteristics) and the present assemblage of parts that make FS appear to be at that point. There are after all three types of Doncaster pacific operational, and that is technically sufficient to demonstrate the best way to use the pacific format within the UK loading gauge.

But if the museum decides it needs an operational loco as a flagship, then fine, build new. My reason for suggesting a V2 is simple. Green Arrow will also go non-operational. The only large class of 2-6-2 built in the UK, and a runaway success in service; significant too, had a big influence on later off-LNER designs, Bulleid and Riddles wide firebox mixed traffic classes were a direct result. If it is to be operated on the national network it has the advantage of being smaller than the final pacifics, and as such can be developed to give it greater water capacity in particular, while staying within 70ft turntable scope. It might even be possible to grow the tender to ten axle with a big rear overhang and something like 8-9,000 gallon capacity. That would be quite an asset against present operational constraints.

There are of course many other attractive possibilities, but assuming that at least some of the national network remains available to steam operation the locomotive needs to have reliable 2,000 hp, 30,000lb+ tractive force and 75mph capability on tap, to operate a decent payload. And that means a larger big wheeled loco.

[S.A.C. Martin]

Do we not think future generations deserve the same experience of Flying Scotsman in steam that we have all been lucky to experience, then?

She's been a working locomotive since 1923, almost non stop (taking into account being stopped for overhauls) and in my view at any rate, it would wrong for any one person to take that decision to silence her once and for all.

She's probably the best choice as an ambassador for the NRM in any event, both in steam and out.

[Hatfield Shed]

Could they get away with an all new FS on the road, and the present assembly of parts plinthed at the NRM? (The present FS is a facsimile of the development state of the Doncaster pacific platform somewhere in the 1940 - 1960 time frame, plinthing the old might mean being able to restore externally to a facsimile of A1 build condition.)

[Blink Bonny]

Ay up!

If it comes to that, then 92220 is the ONLY steam loco in the National Collection that still has most, not all, but most of its original parts, although there are at least two other engine numbers stamped into the motion. I believe she still has her original boiler.

When dealing with any machinery, it is a given that parts wear out and are replaced. The current overhaul of Scotsman is merely picking up on the rewards of "deferred maintenance." If we end up with an A3 for the 21st Century, go for it. At lease it is now in safe hands.

[Horsetan]

Ay up!

If it comes to that, then 92220 is the ONLY steam loco in the National Collection that still has most, not all, but most of its original parts, although there are at least two other engine numbers stamped into the motion. I believe she still has her original boiler......

...and 9Fs are effectively banned from the NR network, apparently because modern crossing noses and flangless driving wheels don't mix very well.....

[manna]

G'Day Gents

Regarding the center wheels on a 9F, would it be possible to replace them with a flanged set, after all there are rather a lot of them rusting away around the country, surely a pair of wheels could be donated !!

manna

[Blink Bonny]

Ay up!

Could be done I reckon but there'd be a huge problem in getting the thing round tight curves. You'd be talking a whole new "dynamic envelope" as regards flange forces with would require a new Safety Case, reams of paperwork, miles of red tape...

You get the idea.

Pity Notwork Fail don't do the sensible thing. It called "RUN SOME TESTS!

But then I'm an empirical sort of chap. Theoretists run everything now.

[Blink Bonny]

Ay up!

Could be done I reckon but there'd be a huge problem in getting the thing round tight curves. You'd be talking a whole new "dynamic envelope" as regards flange forces with would require a new Safety Case, reams of paperwork, miles of red tape...

You get the idea.

Pity Notwork Fail don't do the sensible thing. It called "RUN SOME TESTS!"

But then I'm an empirical sort of chap. Theoretists run everything now.

[Horsetan]

Ay up!
....Notwork Fail.....

Along with Worst Group, and the TOC formerly known as We Are Going Nowhere?