Guess the class

jwealleans · Post by **jwealleans** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:52 pm

Got it by accident, I'm afraid - I was off along the lines of '1B/B1'...

I didn't know they were called Zeppelins either - my thoughts about the 'struck fear' were around their (apparently) inadequate braking for the freight trains they were supposed to work.

Well, this is unexpected. I will have to give it some thought. Please don't hold your collective breaths.

jwealleans · Post by **jwealleans** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:18 pm

This is stretching the thread title a little but is the best I can come up with at short notice. As I will now be away on business until next week it may allow you to exercise your collective grey matter.

Which two LNER locomotives were photographed together, in service, bearing the same name?

Post by **richard** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:12 pm

It isn't No. 4472 "Flying Scotsman" and one of the A4s hauling "The Flying Scotsman"?

Some names were definitely re-used - eg. the Scottish and GCR named engines, but I can't think of any off-hand that overlapped in their service.

Richard

jwealleans · Post by **jwealleans** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:36 pm

I hadn't thought of that as a possibility but in this case both bore the name in their own right.

Colombo · Post by **Colombo** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:31 pm

JW,

Would that be ex-GCR Class D11 Prince of Wales and the eponymous A1/3 no. 2553?

Colombo

jwealleans · Post by **jwealleans** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:01 pm

Now that, Colombo, is a better example than the one I had in mind and set me thinking. My Green Bible is strangely silent on the subject of No. 2553: do I not recall that it was renamed to commemorate the visit of the future Edward VIII to Doncaster?

I can only assume that either it was a spur of the moment decision or powers that be somehow overlooked it. I believe the official attitude was not to have duplicate names - again I'm going off the top of my head, but wasn't 'Cock O'the North' removed from a Reid Atlantic so it could be used on the P2?

Perhaps it could be justified on the grounds that they were named after different Princes of Wales?

In this case both were carrying their original and to my knowledge only names. I'm going to have to locate my source for this photograph when someone does get it.

Colombo · Post by **Colombo** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:47 am

JW,

I confirm that No.2553 was renamed from Manna on 11th November 1926 to commemorate the visit of HRH the Prince of Wales to Doncaster Plant.
(Yeadon's Register, Appendix 1)

The Reid NB Atlantics had magnificent Scottish names which were perpetuated on Pacifics and presumably there could have been overlaps. Only war time austerity stopped one of these locos being preserved, the last having been earmarked for preservation, and outliving the rest of the class by a couple of years, if my memory serves me right.

Colombo

jwealleans · Post by **jwealleans** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:59 pm

I think you are right about the Reid Atlantic - 'Midlothian if memory serves but it fell victim to the wartime scrap drive.

I'm going to leave the shared name question hanging but have come up with something more in keeping with the original thread.

Father and son both built locomotives; father was singularly eminent while both their designs were noted for their lack of a singular eminence.

These were a product of the son. They were never abundant; saw the first war but not the second; were Grouped twice within two years.

They bequeathed their boilers and numbers to other locomotives, some of which went on to give sterling service.

I can't imagine that will stretch you too far.

John B · Post by **John B** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:14 am

JW,

These famous engineers were father & son Patrick & Matthew Stirling, most of their engines lacked a regulator valve dome in the middle of the boiler, they also had very short cab roofs and porthole style windows.

These engines were classed as H&BR "B" or LNER J23's.

Only 55 were built, the last one was scrapped in 1938.

Grouped firstly on 1st April 1922 by the NER and then on 1st January 1923 by the LNER.

I don't know where their boilers went, but guess it may have been the J28??

jwealleans · Post by **jwealleans** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:40 pm

Hello John,

You're part way there. It is a Stirling class.

Jonathan

John B · Post by **John B** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:38 am

Hi Johnathan,

From your comments I must assume I have identified the class wrongly

, perhaps you would be kind enough to confirm or deny this

jwealleans · Post by **jwealleans** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:44 am

Correct, John.

John B · Post by **John B** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:48 am

Thanks Johnathan,

It's back to the drawing board for me then; I may be gone for some time

Colombo · Post by **Colombo** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:34 pm

Jonathan,

I must give credit to John for pointing out the Matthew Stirling locos of the H&BR as likely contenders.
Sorry if I have stolen your thunder John, perhaps I have a book that you lack.

Would the class in question be LNER Class Q10, built by the H&BR as Class A in 1907, only 15 in number. H&BR absorbed by NER in 1921, into the LNER at the Grouping in 1923, all scrapped by in 1931. Replacement boilers that had been fitted by LNER at Darlington then re used on other class(es), I cannot recall which.

They were numbered 2498 to 2512, which numbers then went to two K3s, nine A3s and four A4s.

I had thought that you could have been referring to the J23s, but they were not withdrawn until 1938, and many did not pass on their numbers. The same applies to the less numerous J28s.

Colombo

jwealleans · Post by **jwealleans** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:48 pm

I didn't think it would take you lot long. As you say, Colombo, the boilers went onto Q5s (IIRC, the then Q5/2 subclass) until they were life expired.

There was an extra clue in the last part of the question as the numbers 2509-2512 were reused for the silver A4s (hence 'sterling service' - which was also a play on the family name. I was very pleased with myself for dreaming that up).

Which leads me neatly onto the other unanswered poser - the two locmotives with the same name. 'Locomotives' may be stretching the point as one was A4 2512 'Quicksilver' and the other the Sentinel Railcar of the same name. There is a photograph (which I cannot now locate) of them together at Edinburgh Waverley.

Over to you, Colombo....