Luggage and Guard's area, sizing the wood pad by the doors

[Dave]

Graham

Thanks for the message.
I hope you got the reply.

Dave

[gdb]

Mike, Dave,
I have tried to download and print your photos of the carriage interiors without much success - if I enlarge the image during the printing I loose clarity.... may I please have copies of the hi-res original files?

thank you, Graham Beare

[Dave]

Hi Graham.
I have just emailed you my interior pics of the brake as posted, I will send plans when I get home.

Let me know if you got them ok.

DAve

[gdb]

Mike and Dave,

Photos received thank you, looks like the result will be better this time when I try to print the pictures in an enlarged form.

regards, Graham

[gdb]

Many of the diagrams for brake coaches in Harris and Campling show what appears to be a grating /or wood strips inside of the luggage doors.... can anyone please explain what the diagrams are showing and how constructed?

Thank you, Graham Beare

[MikeTrice]

It is an area of raised flooring showing the wooden panelling as seen below:

[gdb]

It is an area of raised flooring showing the wooden panelling as seen below:

IMG_1548.JPG

Thank you Mike for answering the question and for providing an illustration. If you have a hi-res version then may I ask for a copy to my home inbox?

regards, Graham Beare

[4493]

Graham,

Note that the raised Oak pad shown in the photo Mike T has posted is surrounded by timber floor boards, these were normally covered with a redish coloured concrete/asbestos mix known as decolite and not visible.

Hope you will be posting some pics of your models on here.

Best wishes,

4493

[gdb]

Note that the raised Oak pad shown in the photo Mike T has posted is surrounded by timber floor boards, these were normally covered with a redish coloured concrete/asbestos mix known as decolite and not visible.

Hope you will be posting some pics of your models on here.

Just when I thought that I was understanding how Mike's photo of today allowed me to "read" the plans in Nick Campling's book... your comment above has caused me some puzzlement. What was covered by Decolite... the floorboards of the luggage and guard's area or just the raised portion by the doors?

Mike posted within this thread, on November 29th, some photos of the interior of a NYMR Brake coach in response to a different question. Those photos show a red covering over the entire floor except for a strip between opposing luggage doors. I cannot tell from the photographs if this non-red area is wooden or otherwise... certainly there is no impression of the raised portion as in the photo which Mike posted today.

There seems to be more than one way in which to surface the floor area between luggage doors... and the difference in the floors of Mike's photos seems to explain the different representations of the floor in Nick Campling's plans. For our D114 and D175 models am I safe by including the oak pad in surrounded by a red colour for the remainder of the floor?

Posting pictures? Love to... however each time I think that we are making progress with the build we realise just how little we know and that there are new puzzles to be un-ravelled as we go back a step or two. On the other hand, we are please with where we are and the results are looking good. Maybe we are only now getting to understand why there has been no review of a JLTRT Gresley kit here or on RM Web so far.

regards, Graham

[MikeTrice]

A quick, and I do mean quick, scan of the diagrams in "LNER Standard Gresley Coaches" suggests that the arrangement above with separate "pads" by each door applied to early coaches (predominently those on turnbuckle underframes) and the wide strip right across, to later builds (typically steel angle underframes). Matching the pattern to the type of underframe may not be that accurate, and it will be interesting trying to say at what date the pattern changed. The diagram for the D114 shows separate pads and a turnbuckle underframe.

Regarding the Decolite, it is applied over the longitudinal floorboards to a depth matching the oak framing by the door and a depth at the centre of 5/8", giving a smooth surface. The surface slightly higher in the centre of the coach gives a run off to the side. You may note some of the "knee" brackets screwed to the floor in the photo. These would be covered by the Decolite. So the original photo with full width oak treadway shows the Decolite in place, whereasd the photo above with separate pads, it has not been applied.

Thanks to 4493 for the description of Decolite, the composition of which I had not come across before.

Boy is this going to be a superdetailed model you are building Graham. Look forward to seeing the results, as I suspect do others.

[2512silverfox]

I think that the original 'pads' were inset into the floor in such a way that they could be replaced and or cleaned rather in the fashion of gratings on board ships. They were at the point of highest wear and particularly vulnerable to spilt milk etc. This is a suggestion but it does seem logical, and I do remember seeing a pile of them in the carpenters shop at the Plant - either new or being repaired.

Nick Campling

[gdb]

[quote="MikeTrice"]A quick scan of the diagrams in "LNER Standard Gresley Coaches" suggests that the arrangement above with separate "pads" by each door applied to early coaches (predominently those on turnbuckle underframes) and the wide strip right across, to later builds (typically steel angle underframes). Matching the pattern to the type of underframe may not be that accurate, and it will be interesting trying to say at what date the pattern changed. The diagram for the D114 shows separate pads and a turnbuckle underframe.

Thanks to 4493 for the description of Decolite, the composition of which I had not come across before.
quote]

Thank you Mike for taking the time to look through the book (above)... your suggestion that truss=rod equates to "pad" and angle-iron equates to "strip" does seem to hold in most cases. The diagram for D175, page 67 in the above book, shows pads with angle-iron; a pity that the photos of the interior of no. 24068 (posted earlier on this thread) do not show the lugagge area.

Interesting comment on the composition of Decolite - the Pontypool railway website records that the LSWR brake coaches had a Decolite floor when entering preservation and that the composition was (thought to be?) portland cement, sawdust and iron-oxide powder (hence the red colour).

Going back to the photos of the NYMR brake posted to this thread, I have looked at the "strip" between the doors under zoom and the enlarged image does not show floor boarding in that area. When the floor covering was restored by the NYMR (LNER-CA?) was the entire floor covered with composition and the strip given a different colour?

regards, Graham

[gdb]

An entertaining time this afternoon - trying to guesstimate the size of the wood pads by the luggage doors.

I started with a copy of the D114 diagram and enlarged that drawing until the dimension over body pillars measured as 240mm on the computer screen. Now 8' 6" (prototype) scales to 60mm at 7mm:1 foot so by setting the dimension line to be 240mm the drawing was displayed at 4 times the actual size for a 7mm model. Measuring the size of the wood pad on the display gave this result:-

* 104mm x 50mm image;
* 26 x 12.5mm for 7mm scale model;
* 3'9" x 1'9" prototype.

Not having a body general arrangement drawing I offer these results for comments and / or corrections.

Your thoughts gentlemen?

thank you, Graham Beare

[4493]

Graham,

Actual size of pad is 48 3/4" x 23 1/4".

Best wishes,

4493

[Dave]

Graham

I found this it may be of help....it says about the flooring - floorboards laid longitudinally covered with Decolite or Induroleum 5/8th inch at sides 1,3/8th thickness at centre. The pads are sizes as o/a 4'-2,3/8" x 1'-10,5/8".

? what is Induroleum made of, I assume it's similar to Decolite.