On July 25th there is to be a re-creation of "The Elizabethan" using Deltic D9009 'Alcidon' to head the down train and 60163 'Tornado' to head the return up train.
The schedule shows a departure time of 07.00 from Kings Cross arriving in Edinburgh at 12.30 with stops at Peterburgh, York and Darlington. That's a journey time of five-and-a-half hours.
I have to admit to knowing very little of the performances of diesels (and other non-steam traction) as my interest and enthusiasm suffered a severe body blow with the early 1960s displacement of my beloved steam locos up here on the ECML by those dreadful machines !!!
To me, five-and-a-half hours from Edinburgh to London (or London to Edinburgh) for diesel traction back in the early 60s seems a very fast time as my hazy memory seems to recall it was into the 80s (???) before the HSTs managed to bring the journey time down below five hours.
Were the Deltics capable of posting times 50-odd years ago as mentioned above ???
Bear in mind that an A4 on the Coronation service was capable of six hours in the 1930s, and that was on a track layout with numerous slow sections due to what were even then dated track formations. That 6 hour schedule was restored post war only when the Deltics came into service, I have in mind 1963 before that happened. With the numerous improvements to track alignments for the much faster service since electrification, a Deltic should have the capacity for five and a half hours. Come to that, if the 75mph limit were taken off and enough water carried in an auxiliary tender, Tornado should be able to crack that off too provided the tender is full with the highest grade coal available, and a clear path could be made available.
No Elizabethan but 6 hours with a stop at Newcastle for the Flying Scotsman and the Talisman is the fastest I can find in my 1965 timetable (which has a Deltic on the cover).
In'nt funny, the 0755 with three stops, is faster than the 1000 with only one stop !!!!!!
Also going back to the early 70's and using memory only, I remember the 0800 (1S16) and the 1000 (1S17) but don't remember the 0755, I'm not saying there wasn't one, I just don't remember it, or had the 0800 been dropped back 5 minutes, by 1975/76, I worked at the Cross then ! must have been in La La land
Hi Gents, up till late 1973 the early morning weekday departures from the Cross were as follows :
07.45 1N06 K.X - Newcastle arrival 11.18, stops at Stevenage & Darlington. Crew K.X 153 diagram Deltic hauled 8 coaches
07.55 1L03 K.X - Leeds arrival 10.34, stops (if memory serves me) Stevenage & Wakefield. Crew K.X 177 diagram Deltic hauled 8 coaches
08.00 1S16 K.X - Edinburgh, Deltic Hauled, not sure of crew diagram
08.20 1L05 K.X - Leeds. K.X 166 diagram as far as Doncaster
The 07.45 & 07.55 departures were business flyers with limited stops with equivalent workings in the opposite direction & also evening departures from Leeds & Newcastle
It's possible by 1975 that the 07.45 was retimed to 07.55 and extended through to Edinburgh
Also by the 1970's drivers of all main line departures on East Coast workings were presented prior to departure with a printed individual schedule showing all relevant details of the train weight, intermediate stops, PW slacks and passing times etc; which made it unecessary to carry a WTT. Unfortunately these cards were discarded at the end of each journey and I doubt if any survived. So remembering station stops after 39 years is tricky.
Have a memory as a School boy in the late 50's early 60's going to Doncaster in the holidays along with all the other spotters and watching the North bound Elizabethan come through at Speed. The Porters always came onto the platform and made sure that all the people were standing as close to the wall and well out of the way before the train arrived.We tended to sit under the Signal Cabin.( 60700 was the stand by engine on most visits.)
The Elizabethan as it came through always seems to have had the the crews changing over as it went through Doncaster. Sometimes all 4 crew would be in the cab together.Another time some would be seen either arriving via the tender or leaving. The train always looked to shine, having just picked up water South of Doncaster.As fine a site as you could wish to see.
Just an aside as regards the Elizabethan running through Doncaster, I am not suggesting that crew change overs en route never happened at Doncaster but I understand the officail change over point was Tollington, north of York which I beleive is the half way point from London to Edinburgh.
How things have changed over the years the Flying Scotsman was before 1962 6 hrs 30 mins Kings Cross-Newcastle-Edinburgh then with the full introduction of the Deltics went down to 6 hours, then over the years it crept down to 5 hours 45 mins then with the total modernisation of the East Coast Route and the coming of the HSTs and 225s the journey from Kings Cross to Edinburgh is now around 4 hours 30 mins with no less than four stops. Not bad at all.
Four and a half hours it may be, but I would rather take six and have an A4 on the front.
With all the improvements on the ECML over the past 30 years, I wonder how fast an A4 could do it today !! places like Peterborough, from 20mph to, what, 100mph or more, do you reckon 40-45 mins could be taken off the 1962 schedule ??
sandwhich wrote: " Just an aside as regards the Elizabethan running through Doncaster, I am not suggesting that crew change overs en route never happened at Doncaster but I understand the officail change over point was Tollington, north of York which I beleive is the half way point from London to Edinburgh. .... "
Hi sandwhich,
May I just ask, in the cause of perhaps preventing further scratching of head by anyone looking through rail atlases in vain ; might you have meant Tollerton, which is around that area?
