Standard 3MT's on the NER

[Chamossaire]

I'm hoping I don't get flamed for mentioning Standard locomotives on an LNER forum, but my question does relate to NER territory. I'm wondering if anyone can confirm, unequivocally, the allocation of some Standard 3MT 2-6-0's (77xxx) to Bridlington in the 1950's. I have seen conflicting allocations for 77000/1/10 - some saying they went to Bridlington in July 1955, the other saying they went to Botanic Gardens, Hull. Does anyone have first hand knowledge of these movements?

[Blink Bonny]

Ay up!

Well they were allocated thus according to my 1959 "Locoshed" if this helps:

77000 53A
77001 53B
77010 53A

Interesting....

[strang steel]

According to my copy of Xpress Loco Register, none went to Bridlington neither in 1955 or at any other time.

[rob237]

1955 'Locoshed' (11/06/55):

All three allocated to 51A...

Cheers
Robt P.

[neilgow]

They may not have been shedded at Bridlington but they were a regular feature on a variety of trains on the Hull to Scarborough line. 77013 appears to have been shedded at Scarborough in 1962 according to Ian Allan. One pre 1960 Shed Book has 77012 & 13 located in Whitby.

Somehow I managed to see 77008 a 66A engine. How I do not know now.

Rgds

NG

[52D]

002/004 appeared at Tweedmouth they were also used from the sub at Alnmouth circa 1965.

[Chamossaire]

Thanks for all your replies - it does confirm a very thorugh source of data that I had questione, but contradicts the Trains Illustrated magazine for the period. The allocation to Bridlington was perpetuated in the Book of the Standards too.

So, it seems that these three engines were never allocated to Bridlington (53D) and that there was a misprint, the correct code should have been 53B.

Thanks

[strang steel]

Well, those 3 locos 77000/1/10 were at W. Auckland in the early months of 1955 according to the loco register, but then moved in June to Dairycoates and in September to Botanic Gardens.

[50C]

Out of interest please find below allocation history of 77000/1/10

77000 Feb 54 to Darlington from Swindon,jul 54 West Auckland,jun 55 Darlington,jul 55 Hull Botanic Gardens,dec 57 Hull Springhead,dec 58 Hull Dairycoates,Jan 63 Darlington,may 64 Stourton,dec 64 WD.

77001 Feb 54 to Darlington from Swindon,Jul 54 West Aukland,Jun 55 Darlington,jul 55 Botanic Gardens,Jun 59 Dairycoates,apr 62 Thornaby,Sep 63 Stourton,dec 63 Farnley Junction,dec 64 Manningham,nov 65 Dairycoates,dec 65 Goole,jan 66 WD-well travelled loco.

77010 jun 54 from Swindon,jul 54 West Auckland,jun 55 Darlington,Jul 55 Botanic Gardens,oct 58 Springhead,dec 58 Dairycoates,apr 62 Thornaby,apr 63 West Auckland,feb 64 Stourton,nov 65 WD.

I suspect 77000/10 were sent to Springhead for storage at the time Botanic Gardens was being dieselised.I also seem to remember a photo of the last 4 Hull D49's in storage at Springhead over the winter of 1959 before having their final fling in the summer of 1960.


50c

[strang steel]

Out of interest please find below allocation history of 77000/1/10

77000 Feb 54 to Darlington from Swindon,jul 54 West Auckland,jun 55 Darlington,jul 55 Hull Botanic Gardens,dec 57 Hull Springhead,dec 58 Hull Dairycoates,Jan 63 Darlington,may 64 Stourton,dec 64 WD.

77001 Feb 54 to Darlington from Swindon,Jul 54 West Aukland,Jun 55 Darlington,jul 55 Botanic Gardens,Jun 59 Dairycoates,apr 62 Thornaby,Sep 63 Stourton,dec 63 Farnley Junction,dec 64 Manningham,nov 65 Dairycoates,dec 65 Goole,jan 66 WD-well travelled loco.

77010 jun 54 from Swindon,jul 54 West Auckland,jun 55 Darlington,Jul 55 Botanic Gardens,oct 58 Springhead,dec 58 Dairycoates,apr 62 Thornaby,apr 63 West Auckland,feb 64 Stourton,nov 65 WD.

I suspect 77000/10 were sent to Springhead for storage at the time Botanic Gardens was being dieselised.I also seem to remember a photo of the last 4 Hull D49's in storage at Springhead over the winter of 1959 before having their final fling in the summer of 1960.


50c

That is obviously one allocation history, but the one I quoted from the Xpress Loco Register is another slightly different version.

May I ask where yours comes from 50c?

[bricam5]

My memory for loco numbers fails me but I can say that Botanic Gardens had a least one 3MT shedded there.
Our regular engine in tanky link (7397) was fire out for a washout and we were given a 3MT for three days on the Hornsea run. With about half a doxen bogies behind us the engine was in no way stretched so it was an uneventful three days.
Getting those C12's to steam properly was a fifferent matter!

[strang steel]

I get rather angry when it transpires that information gleaned from contemporary magazines, such as Trains Illustrated and the Railway Observer (which did not always get it right) has not been checked thoroughly before being published again in more modern publications.

We are in danger of perpetuating an incorrect view of history, which in many years time no one will question because it has been published in a book, or more likely, stated on a wikipedia-style website.

As this thread seems to illustrate we now have two, or maybe three, different versions of where those locos were shedded during 1955.

[Chamossaire]

I get rather angry when it transpires that information gleaned from contemporary magazines, such as Trains Illustrated and the Railway Observer (which did not always get it right) has not been checked thoroughly before being published again in more modern publications.

We are in danger of perpetuating an incorrect view of history, which in many years time no one will question because it has been published in a book, or more likely, stated on a wikipedia-style website.

As this thread seems to illustrate we now have two, or maybe three, different versions of where those locos were shedded during 1955.

When I first put the data on my site, I used Trains Illustrated (scanned, OCR'ed and then turned into sql - plenty of opportunities for error). The TI entry says 53D (i.e. Bridlington). This is also true in the book of the BR Standards. A chap I am in contact with had them down as Hull Botanic Gardens (which is why I asked the question). His sources were the contemporary Railway Observers and SLS Journals.

It isn't always possible to cross reference all of these sources (I haven't got RO or SLS for 1955) and when there are discrepancies, the best way is to ask for first hand knowledge - hence my question here.

I am surprised, too, that the Book of the Standards perpetuates the error, especially when the item in question is a commercial product. Getting a clear and accurate picture of anything historical is always a challenge though!

[strang steel]

What interests me is that at the front of the Xpress Loco Registers, they state that their information has been gained from BTC documents and they dont mention the published railway magazines at all as a source.

I have no idea which documents they are referring to, but I have always presumed them to be the more accurate ones.

[52D]

Watch out for typos as well i have found a reference to 52D when they meant 53D during my researches.