GNR gunpowder wagon livery.

[Tony west]

I am in need of a little collective wisdom please !.
In Mr Tatlow's LNE wagons vol 1. there is a photo of a GN GP wagon. Now I know that the basic livery was white with red lettering...but, the solebars and external T section framing is in a darker colour. Would this be in red or another colour ?.
Many thanks in advance.
Cheers Tony.

[john coffin]

Research done many years ago by the late Horace Twells and Dick Tarpey, as well as work by the still very much alive Chris Duffell and Terry Henderson resulted in a series of books from the GNRS about various wagons and vans.

Book 4 has four or five photos of various vehicles in use as Gunpowder vans. Pre the first world war, there were special vans which were painted white, with red lettering and it seems the ironwork, and below the solebars was black.

In addition, some 19 feet long, oil axle box, fitted vans with screw couplings without ventilation were converted during WW1 but retained standard red oxide livery in a number of cases with two white panel and red lettering over the G & N.

Still others just had white lettering on the oxide, including For Explosives Only
"To be returned EMPTY immediately to Wakefield (Kirkgate)"

[Tony west]

Many thanks John.
You mention black below the solebars....what colour would the solebars themselves have been...red ??.
Cheers Tony.

[john coffin]

sorry tend to think of below the solebars as including them too! Since they are not tenders, my definitions are a bit lax !

it seems that pre the first war, the livery was white down to the bottom of the solebars, with red metalwork, the early rounded type
had double doors with flush iron plating.

Also some outside framed 8 ton vans were adapted around the time of the Boer war 1899-1901 where the livery seems to be white, even down
to the bottom of the solebars. Framing is red, whilst lettering in red had darker shading. Body iron work was black as the parts of the underframe.

Often lettered " To be returned to Kings +" in red.7 passed into LNER although all had gone by 1931.

Paul

[Tony west]

Once again many thanks !!.
Just checked the photo again on p69 of LNE wagons vol 1, it definitely has solebars and headstocks in a dark colour. The vehicle in question is of the iron mink type (No 13207). if that makes any difference !.......beginning to make livery variations on the GCR look straightforward !!.
Cheers Tony.

[jwealleans]

Steel solebars were black under the LNER, wooden ones body colour.

[Tony west]

Sorry, should have made it clear that I'm interested in the pre 1923 livery !.
Cheers Tony.

[john coffin]

tony,
all my evidence, gleaned from others sadly, suggests black under the basic body, even with the "mink" type

paul