Help Wanted - LNER Dia 86 4-Wheel Vans

[notascoobie]

Good afternoon,

I'm looking for a bit of help for a modelling projecy. Years ago I built a D&S Dia 86 General Van, painted it and there it's sat awaiting lettering. I've not been able to find a good photo of a vehicle to base my lettering on. Please scratch your heads and see if you caan point me at a good photographic reference. Ideally late LNER or early BR periods.

Thanks.

Regards,

Vernon

ps I've seen Chaz Harrison's thread from 2009

[2562]

Good afternoon Vernon,

Not photographic but taken from the Diag 86 GA dated January '26

[jwealleans]

I'd assumed Vernon wanted post-LNER lettering, but in case it is the LNER period required, the instructions (if you still have them) show quite unusual LNER lettering. So odd I couldn't actually believe they were right, but I now have an indistinct photo showing them to be correct.

If anyone does some up with a BR period photo I'd be delighted to see it as well.

[notascoobie]

I'd be happy to go with whatever I can get!

I must have a look for the instructions and see if I still have them.

Thanks for your replies

If anyone out there knows more I'd be delighted to hear from them.

Regards,

Vernon

[2512silverfox]

As NPCCS Dia 86 was in 'teak' colour with white writing. The original finish was a large NE central with number etc at the lh end, but from 1937 the NE, no etc was moved into the lh corner as with freight stock. The other info mentioned by Andy was always at the rh corner. Apart from the letters NE the BR branding would have been similar but the body colour possibly a shade of red/crimson?

[jwealleans]

Found this in the background of another picture:



Suggests that the data was on a door and at the 'wrong' end. Being on a door makes sense as it would then remain visible when the door was opened. I think the long CCTs were treated in this way.

In LNER days the default layout was as Nick describes and that is how I did mine. Danny's instructions, however, show 'LNER' in full in what looks like freight lettering size about half way up the side to the right of the left hand door, with the number in the same lettering style and position to the left of the right hand door. Very recently - this week, in fact and irritatingly I now can't find it - I saw a photo of one behind a B17 and although the lettering is indistinct it is exactly where Dan suggests. It's also consistent with the lettering on the GE milk van I recently finished, which was taken from a splendid photo in the GERS Journal.

[2512silverfox]

Johnathan is quite right about that. I have seen a photo of the milk van with a smallish LNER in full and of course I had forgotten that the info on the left hand end would have been on an opening door. Possibly the LNER treatment was a Stratford peculiarity since the vehicles were, at least in LNER days, overhauled there. I still think the number etc was on the left end and the data panel (width etc) on the rh end.

[jwealleans]

Found it - it's in The Main Lines of East Anglia, John Brodribb, page 115. It's a Wethersett view of Wynyard Park working a Liverpool Street express in 1935. The D.86 is right behind the engine:



As Nick says the dimension information seems to be bottom right and the number is to the right of the right hand door, not the left as I remembered. That makes sense because the open door wouldn't then obscure it.

[notascoobie]

Excellent work thank you Jonathan.

I'll get cracking!

Regards,

Vernon

[60117 Bois Roussel]

Sorry I'm late to this party, only just found it! I put a pile of stuff about D.86 and D.87 on my w/s yesterday in a file that's 11 pages and 17 illustrations, nearly all originals, to try and clear up confusion. As regards the liveries:

LNER - There are no known portraits of these vans in LNER days but a train picture at Ipswich is the best one; you can even read the number.
BR - So far there are three portraits from this period, from early to late BR and while the quality varies, the livery styles over the years show well.

Here's the link:
http://steve-banks.org/prototype-and-tr ... 6-and-d-87

[60117 Bois Roussel]

An update from my end on several fronts, based on GAs and a Colour-Rail slide from 1938. I've added it to the w/s, a synopsis being:

- the slide shows a D.86 van in what might be described as passenger stock mid-brown, except that it's virtually chocolate.

- the GAs confim dual braking and oil lighting in the sequence I've already described.

- the surviving body GA for what was intended to be D.86 shows that it was used as the basis for both Diagrams 86 and 87, which in turn became the basis for the Isinglass drawing, and then the model. Yet as the photographs show, Stratford built something else - for both D.86 and D.87. The fairest thing I can say is that the Isinglass Models kit, which claims to cover both Diagrams, doesn't, while the two kits from D&S got them both right.

- Some other details have also come to light.

The whole write-up and pdf now runs to thirteen pages with just over 20 illustrations: http://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-an ... 6-and-d-87