information needed regarding the formation of Dwight D. Eisenhower's command train

[Nova]

I've got a friend in the USA who lives near Green Bay, Wisconsin, where 60008 Dwight D. Eisenhower and two LNER teaks that were supposedly part of one of the command trains are located.

He's intending to produce a diorama depicting 4496/60008 as she was as Golden Shuttle during WW2 pulling a complete rake of the command train to donate to the National Railroad Museum as an educational piece to display alongside 60008 and the two coaches.

but he's searched far and wide for some time trying to find information regarding the formation and length and has so far come up empty handed.

so if any of you have any information that I could pass on regarding formation, appearance and even numbers it would be greatly appreciated.

[2512silverfox]

The NRM hold photographic negatives of several of the vehicles which were especially built or converted for the Command Train. They may be prepared to help you. Remember though that 'Ike' was a prime target and the make up of his train and the layout of the vehicles within it would have been a very closely guarded secret at the time and probably only recorded in some dark recess.

Certainly in my own fairly lengthy research into LNER carriages I never saw detailed reference to it except for those now quite well know photos.

Nick Campling

[52D]

I will look in my collection as im sure i have a couple of pics of Ike and Monty visiting a Polish tank formation in the Borders and alighting from the train at Greenlaw on the Berwickshire Railway.

[Nova]

thank you for your replies, this friend of mine intends to visit in a few years so we'll have to arrange for some copies both for him and a set to donate to green bay museum

[Trestrol]

I believe the train was converted at Swindon works. A GWR monster was used to transport Eiks jeep. There are some internal pictures in book who's name escapes me at present. It is also mentioned in "Steaming to victory" by Michael Williams.

[jwealleans]

There are some interior and exterior pictures in LNER Reflections by Nigel Harris.

[Trestrol]

There are some interior and exterior pictures in LNER Reflections by Nigel Harris.

its LNER IN FOCUS not Reflections

[jwealleans]

That's not what it says on my copy.

[65447]

There are some interior and exterior pictures in LNER Reflections by Nigel Harris.

its LNER IN FOCUS not Reflections

And it's by John Crawley. There is only one partial exterior view, with Thompson, Peppercorn and Col Bingham (US Army) after inspecting the special armour-plated coach. The caption states it was numbered 1591 and had been converted from a 1st class Sleeping Car to Dia. 157 built in 1936. The photograph reference is DON 45/42.

The caption under another interior shot states that Eisenhower's Saloon was numbered 1592 and converted from the same type of Sleeping Car as 1591.

When in use they travelled under the code name 'Bayonet' and both carriages were externally painted green to match Southern stock.

[Nova]

I've managed to find a picture of the command train, I was wondering if you could help confirm the types of coaching stock



from the engine back, they seem to be the following:

2x GWR GUVs, possibly Monsters
1x LMS brake coach(?)
1x LNER teak coach, possibly Ike's lounge car
1x possibly another teak, but not sure, could be SR stock
1x possibly another LMS coach
1x not sure

[Eightpot]

Stumble across a bit more information today, even if appears contradictory to previous posts. In 'Triumph & Beyond - The ECML 1939-1959' by B. W. L. Brooksbank and Challeger Publications, ISBN 1 899624 21 X, page 91 and on.

"OTHER TRAINS FOR VERY IMPORTANT PERSONS. During the war the Prime Minister had his own train, supplied at first by the LNER and then by the LMSR, which included two spare vehicles from the LMSR Royal Train. Then in the latter part of the war, two special trains were assembled for the operational use in Britain of Commanders-in-Chief. The train 'ALIVE', a very heavy train of nine coaches included two armour-plated cars (LNENo. 1591 and GW 574) as well as three sleeping cars, two carriage-trucks and up to eight vans, was assembled by the GWR at Swindon but incorporated an LNER sleeping-car partly converted into a saloon and called 'Bayonet'. 'ALIVE' was created for the U S Army, and from January 1944 when he took over as Supreme Commander Allied Exeditionary Forces the train was dedicated to General Eisenhower and his Headquarters Staff. It was kept ar Old Oak Common and normally set off from Kensington Addison Road, until it was shipped over to the Continent in December 1944. After the victory in Europe, 'Alive' was relinquished by the Americans and taken over in July 1945 by the War Office as Field Marshall Montgomery's special train, returned to England and disbanded during the winter of 1945-46."

There is also in Note 11 a statement that:- " A second 'Bayonet' coach was sent over in April 1945."

There is reference to another train named 'Rapier, but this was assembled in 1941, being all LNER vehicles apart from two LMS motor-car vans and used by the C. in C. Home Forces, thus unlikely to have been used by General Eisenhower.

From this it would appear from the date of the photograph in FIG 248 in John Crawley's book actually shows the 2nd LNER 'Bayonet' coach, No,. 1591, rather that of 1592 delivered well over a year earlier. Also the accompanying photographs show blocked out windows on 1592 compared with 1591, additionally the internal furniture is different.

[Eightpot]

Additional thought to the above. As 'ALIVE' was sent to the Continent is it reasonable to assume that it was fitted with both vacuum and air brakes?

On the subject of trains sent to the Continent around that time, in Aachen Hbf (main station), Germany, about thirty years ago in one of the underpasses between platforms there were various past photographs on display. One of around 1945 showed a train (from memory) of Gresley bow-ended main line bogie parcels vans. I believe also that some LNER stock was used for British Forces trains from the Hook of Holland to bases in Germany. Presumably also air brake fitted.