N2 In apple green?

[norfolkrover]

Although all the LNER N2s were in black the wiki claims one single engine no 9522 was liveried in apple green.Does anyone know the story behind this and know of any source for a picture? hornby made a model in green which ceased production in 1969 but that is all I have found.As the loco was scrapped in 1959 I appreciate any pic would be in black and white.

[Hatfield Shed]

Authentic. The LNER in a fit of post war euphoria managed to announce an intent to paint all its locomotives green. This was impossible of fulfillment in the post war austerity period, and 9522 was the sole N2 to receive the green livery - and according to one account the nickname of 'Green Goddess'.

[65447]

Wasn't the Gresley Society's N2 also restored into LNER Apple Green?

[Darryl Tooley]

The Hornby Dublo/Wrenn N2 was certainly produced in LNER green, as was the Airfix/Mainline/Dapol/Hornby N2 by at least one of its several manufacturers, but I'm pretty sure the GNR livery carried by the Gresley Society's N2 now, and, presumably, when built, is the only green livery ever carried by this engine.

D

[Mickey]

Wasn't the Gresley Society's N2 also restored into LNER Apple Green?

I believe it was because it is shown in L.N.E.R. Apple Green livery in one of my archive railway dvds at Howarth on the Keighley and Worth Valley Railway 'not in steam' circa 1969/70.

I always thought it was a pity that they didn't use the Gresley N2 instead of that sandy yellow coloured ex-G.W.R. pannier tank in the filming of the Railway Children in 1969/70 which I believe was filmed on the Keighley and Worth Valley Railway?.

Mickey

[Hatfield Shed]

...As the loco was scrapped in 1959 I appreciate any pic would be in black and white.

On this subject, 'that ain't necessarily so' as the song has it. While monochrome was the norm, there were railway photographers actively using colour films from the 1930s onwards, sometimes to most impressive effect. The LNER group was singularly fortunate in the attention it received from these early colour photographers.

These colour pictures are still slowly coming to light but sadly not one of the N2 carrying LNER lined green so far. What is available to give an idea of how it might have appeared are two pictures of J71 8286 carrying the full lined green treament, one ex-works and sparkling, the other in service in decently clean condition. Colour-Rail NE213 and NE21 respectively, also published in collections: LNER locomotives in colour 1936-1948; The Big Four in Colour 1935 - 50, again respectively.

[65447]

These colour pictures are still slowly coming to light but sadly not one of the N2 carrying LNER lined green so far. What is available to give an idea of how it might have appeared are two pictures of J71 8286 carrying the full lined green treament, one ex-works and sparkling, the other in service in decently clean condition. Colour-Rail NE213 and NE21 respectively, also published in collections: LNER locomotives in colour 1936-1948; The Big Four in Colour 1935 - 50, again respectively.

I looked through both of those before deciding not to mention them as they did not include any photographs of a green N2. You could also have mentioned the green J69 as station pilot at Liverpool Street as 'giving an idea' but, as with a blue or silver A4, none of those offer information directly applicable to a green N2. ISTR there was debate about the accuracy of the livery application to the J71 but then, as with the Liverpool Street pilot, it was a singular example, not company practice.

There is a monochrome photograph of 9522 in Fig. 64 on p77 of 'Locomotives of the LNER' Part 9A. Given the propensity of pre-Gresley GNR locomotives to have a multitude of curved plates the lining is quite complicated - fussy even. The 'Liveries' section notes that 9522 was so painted in November 1946 but not kept clean and emerged from Works in Black in June 1949. It's not at all surprising that money and labour were not wasted on painting the remainder of the class during the post-war austerity.

I would not be at all surprised if the same photograph was also reproduced in the relevant volume of Yeadon's Register.

[norfolkrover]

Thanks hatfield shed I have managed to find a black and white photo in the n2 version of yeadons.I will try and track down a copy of the books to which you refer of the j71

...As the loco was scrapped in 1959 I appreciate any pic would be in black and white.

On this subject, 'that ain't necessarily so' as the song has it. While monochrome was the norm, there were railway photographers actively using colour films from the 1930s onwards, sometimes to most impressive effect. The LNER group was singularly fortunate in the attention it received from these early colour photographers.

These colour pictures are still slowly coming to light but sadly not one of the N2 carrying LNER lined green so far. What is available to give an idea of how it might have appeared are two pictures of J71 8286 carrying the full lined green treament, one ex-works and sparkling, the other in service in decently clean condition. Colour-Rail NE213 and NE21 respectively, also published in collections: LNER locomotives in colour 1936-1948; The Big Four in Colour 1935 - 50, again respectively.

[norfolkrover]

Thanks for the replies.So 6557 do you think the colour pic of the j69 referrred to which comes up on a google search accuratley reflects what the n2 allowing for the curved plates would look like? ie the ornate lining round the tank sides? I assume the gnr legacy when it came to a paint job was only that there was a more ornate design to be lined?

[65447]

Thanks for the replies.So 6557 do you think the colour pic of the j69 referrred to which comes up on a google search accuratley reflects what the n2 allowing for the curved plates would look like? ie the ornate lining round the tank sides? I assume the gnr legacy when it came to a paint job was only that there was a more ornate design to be lined?

Are you meaning 65447?

The photographs of the J71 (York Station Pilot) will offer the most clues as to the livery scheme, the ex-GE J69 is more of what is usually termed a 'Stratford Special' (Stratford had long specialised in 'bulling up' it's locomotives, as did many of the GE Section crews, right through to the Works being closed but Stratford's application of a livery scheme should not be taken to be in full compliance with the official specification).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NER_Class ... ited-2.jpg

But, there again, Darlington and Doncaster also differed in certain areas, whilst for example Kittybrewster in Scotland also repainted several of it's locomotives in the green passenger livery post-war (e.g. B12s) when it was not official.

The J72 livery will suggest the areas painted apple green and those painted either black or red, and the general arrangement of the lining; note that the lining on the main panels and the boiler is bolder than that around the cab windows and that on the N2 the lining is at the edge of the panels and not inset as it is on the J72.

The N2 will also differ in that, due to the curved overall sheet roof to the cab, it was green overall rather than black and the cabside lining also ran over the roof both front and back. The upper wraparound bunker coalplate was lined as a separate panel, as were the main section of the bunker and the curved front to the side tanks also painted and lined as single panels, whereas the J71 having square corners has each panel painted and lined individually. The front splashers and sandboxes were treated as three individual areas of green lined painting but the tops of the splashers, side tanks as well as the footplate all appear to be black too.

The N2 also appears to have a more ornate application of lining to the wheels and axle bosses.

Finally, the buffer stocks appear to be black whereas those on the J71 are red - another Darlington/Doncaster difference.

Please do not refer to photographs showing the green livery applied to the preserved Gresley Society locomotive as it was repainted in the earlier GNR livery.

[1H was 2E]

whilst for example Kittybrewster in Scotland also repainted several of it's locomotives in the green passenger livery post-war (e.g. B12s) when it was not official.

Sorry I'm a little puzzled.... As has already been mentioned, after the War (quoted widely, but never, as far as I can trace has a date been given) the LNER announced that all locos (except A4 & W1 - blue) were to be repainted green, so I'm not sure why this was unofficial? Indeed the Green Guide part 1 p45 compliments Inverurie on its efforts. Around 20 of the ca 25 B12s on the GNoSR section received apple green, and some later received BR numbers and lettering while still green - perhaps the latter was unofficial, but probably excused by "just a TU & V, gov".
Regard the suggestion that painting engines green is a waste of manpower and money; the colour of paint applied does not affect the time or effort in its application, and I'm not sure that black paint was cheaper than green then (it isn't now). I accept that lining is a consideration but that is a separate choice - other railways/regions used elaborately line black or un-lined green.
The G.G. on the same page also helpfully lists all classes painted green post-war - A1/2/3, A10, B1/2/3/4, B12/7, D3, D11/6, D29, J36, J50, J69, J71, J72, J83, K2/3/4, L1, N2, V2/4, to save trawling through the class parts.

[john coffin]

Certainly within the car industry it was always considered that Black paint needed better undercoating and flatter surfaces than almost any other colour except Gold on 1960's jaguars, which often was different on each panel ? One reason for the increase in Silver cars during the last 30 years is the improvement in colour quality.

However to Railways, it is certain that the Green locos need more care in flatting surfaces, and those who saw the D 49 at Doncaster in 2003 will like me have wondered where that colour came from.

just to confuse things in the late 1800's the GNR around London painted many of its suburban locos plain black to try and save money, but the experiment did not last too long, Certainly by the time of the C12, that had stopped.

Paul