Coach side nameboards on 'named trains'

[sawdust]

Rexine is not like formica, which is basically compressed layers of paper impregnated with clear resin. But is a coloured and textured layer of plastic on a fabric backing akin to modern vinyl wall coverings as often found in hospitals and shops.

Having seen swatches of the silver Rexine used on the Silver Jubilee stock at the NRM, I think the train would have looked amazing when new and far more impressive than when later painted silver. I do wonder if one of the difficulties was achieving a successful bond between the Rexine and the steel paneling with the adhesives available at the time. I can understand why it was tried as decorating a "Rexine" carriage interior is many times quicker than one with a painted or varnished finish. It is interesting to consider now how many vehicles have their livery applied by the application of self adhesive vinyls in the present day, how far ahead of their time the LNER were.

Sawdust.

[52D]

Rexine is not like formica, which is basically compressed layers of paper impregnated with clear resin. But is a coloured and textured layer of plastic on a fabric backing akin to modern vinyl wall coverings as often found in hospitals and shops.

Having seen swatches of the silver Rexine used on the Silver Jubilee stock at the NRM, I think the train would have looked amazing when new and far more impressive than when later painted silver. I do wonder if one of the difficulties was achieving a successful bond between the Rexine and the steel paneling with the adhesives available at the time. I can understand why it was tried as decorating a "Rexine" carriage interior is many times quicker than one with a painted or varnished finish. It is interesting to consider now how many vehicles have their livery applied by the application of self adhesive vinyls in the present day, how far ahead of their time the LNER were.

Sawdust.

Sawdust ISTR that Rexine was involved in a few coach fires including one in Cockburnspath tunnel this did not make it too popular with the fire service.

[Graeme Leary]

jwealleans: Have just had a look at the blog you provided the link for and that's probably all one needs to know to convert what I think is the same set that Simon has done his modifications on (and by this I mean even older than the Hornby R4168 that I understand was sold just a few years back. My 5 coaches are also 2nd hand which I bought with an old tender drive A4 Silver Fox (R099 which came in a very old Hornby box and should give you an idea of how old the coaches are - and these I bought 'loose' so don't have a box to quote Hornby's product number). One thing I couldn't help but note are the valances he's added to the coaches as the few photos I've managed to track down of the Silver Jubilee all seem to show these but I don't think they're on any of the Hornby releases. Thanks for the link - great stuff.

Alan: Local library not much help with books, could only find one (and that was not one of your recommendations) called British Railway Carriages of the 20th Century by David Jenkinson but curiously enough no reference to the Silver Jubilee at all. Will take your list to the UK in July.

Another contact here pointed out that the Silver Jubilee coaches were 'quite' short so maybe Hornby's shorter Stanier design coaches will do the job is I follow Simon's conversion path!

This same contact (another ex Yorkshireman from Crigglestone) is wanting to paint one of his A4's into the Silver livery and what he has been able to track down are Phoenix/Precision colours P54 and P56. But ...... this product is not sold in New Zealand and Royal Mail will not post enamel paints, nor will airlines accept them if declared as part of luggage, either checked in or cabin. He says that Humbrol (which you can get in New Zealand) does not have the correct colours for a 'silver' livery repaint but I'd be very happy to advise him otherwise if somebody knew if there is a 'correct' Humbrol silver. Your comments gratefully accepted.

Thanks all again.
Graeme

[Seagull]

Hello Graeme,

The British Railway Carriages book is well worth reading, but as it tries to cover such a large and wide ranging subject naturally lots is missed out.

I was looking for something else and fell over these links which maybe of interest. The text of the first article bears a strong resemblance to what is in the Gresley Observer magazine I have. It makes me suspect both were taken from an LNER press release.

Silver Jubilee
Silver Jubilee picture
Streamlined Expresses

The colour picture in the second link I suggest is probably a very good likeness of the colours as it looks like professional artwork, which of course in those days was done by artists not computer geeks with Photoshop!

Alan

[1H was 2E]

Sawdust and 52D; the original Rexine (which was a trade name of an ICI product) was nitro-cellulose applied over woven cotton-type fabric. I think this may make it quite similar to gun-cotton or a bomb fuse, so it's not altogether surprising that it posed a fire risk.
Having attempted to retrim several vintge buses with it I can understand why it didn't remain popular for long. The more modern 'vinyls', (which salesmen will sometimes call Rexine) consisting of PVC over woven material can be stretched in both directions, but Rexine has absolutely no stretch unless it is beaten into submission. This means that it is very difficult to apply smoothly to any double-curved surface; and many single curved panels will have acquire a slight double curve due to stretching, resulting in an irritating ridge of surplus material across part of the surface. The road transport coach-builders apparently used formers over which the Rexine was stretched over a period; but obviously this meant making a former or mould for each different panel and, if the Rexine was to be applied to an internal curve, the former had to be the external reflex and the Rexine applied face down.
And adhesives in those days were pretty poor; no PVA and the stuff I've come across under old Rexine seemed to rely on the death of a cow.

[sawdust]

Sawdust and 52D; the original Rexine (which was a trade name of an ICI product) was nitro-cellulose applied over woven cotton-type fabric. I think this may make it quite similar to gun-cotton or a bomb fuse, so it's not altogether surprising that it posed a fire risk.
Having attempted to retrim several vintge buses with it I can understand why it didn't remain popular for long. The more modern 'vinyls', (which salesmen will sometimes call Rexine) consisting of PVC over woven material can be stretched in both directions, but Rexine has absolutely no stretch unless it is beaten into submission. This means that it is very difficult to apply smoothly to any double-curved surface; and many single curved panels will have acquire a slight double curve due to stretching, resulting in an irritating ridge of surplus material across part of the surface. The road transport coach-builders apparently used formers over which the Rexine was stretched over a period; but obviously this meant making a former or mould for each different panel and, if the Rexine was to be applied to an internal curve, the former had to be the external reflex and the Rexine applied face down.
And adhesives in those days were pretty poor; no PVA and the stuff I've come across under old Rexine seemed to rely on the death of a cow.

I know what rexine is, I was just correcting the analogy to formica in simple terms.

The trouble you've had with modern vinyl is because you have been using upholstery material not a wall covering one. We have finished four Gresley carriages with a substitute Rexine finish with no problem. It is quick to apply and very durable. The carriages have been used intensively for between over twenty and ten years and I'm very pleased with how they have stood up to the use.

Sawdust.

[1H was 2E]

Sorry Sawdust I've not been clear. No problem with modern vinyl fabrics - I've used these and although I originally had problems with 'snakes' now using the right adhesive (which the experts said wouldn't work!) a very smooth fault free finish can be obtained and lasts.
The problem I had was with genuine original Rexine. It was still just about available in the 70's (from a division of ICI in Manchester), and I used it for authenticity, to match the original spec. The original Rexine was self coloured but had other colours in random pattern applied on the surface; in the bus I was working on, the ceilings had Rexine in cream with a gold and ?dark shading. I managed to get a new roll but couldn't get it down at all smooth except on flat areas.
Unfortunately for authenticity the modern vinyls are, as far as I know, only available in single colour.

[Graeme Leary]

Alan.

Many thanks for the 3 links to the Silver Jubilee. Just had a closer look at them and the historical perspective is really interesting, in fact it's easy to get sidetracked (no pun) by this aspect of modelling. (Have to say - at the risk of possible vehement opposition from some - the A4s were streets ahead of the LMS Streamliners in looks).

Graeme

[Graeme Leary]

Sorry to be a pain in the proverbial (again) but wanted to clarify the colours of the coach (side) name boards for The Silver Jubilee. Have reread earlier posts and may have missed something. The Hornby set (ie Stanier coaches as already confirmed) has 'The Silver Jubilee' in silver letters on a 'junior navy'/deep 'royal blue' board but the only photos (Black and White) I've found give the impression the letters were a pale colour (possibly white ????) on a mid-toned board , possibly even silver (but definitely not a dark colour). About to order replacements boards so want to be as accurate as possible so any comments would be much appreciated.
Thanks again.
Graeme

[mick b]

Dark Blue with White lettering, these are Fox transfers

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1624&start=60

bottom of the page.

[Seagull]

Hello Mick B,

The Silver Jubilee kit featured in that link you describe as Bleathwood Models.

Are they the same as the RDEB etches supplied via Wizard Models? Silver Jubilee Kit

Alan

[2512silverfox]

Silver letters on an Oxford Blue background. As were the coach identification letters on individual coaches; dark blue Gil Sans. B&W photos look white on dark colour, but the LNER had a publicity model in Gauge 1 which at one time was at the pub opposite Liverpool St Station (C1950) with the colour scheme quoted. The plant confirmed this C1965.

[mick b]

Hello Mick B,

The Silver Jubilee kit featured in that link you describe as Bleathwood Models.

Are they the same as the RDEB etches supplied via Wizard Models? Silver Jubilee Kit

Alan

No Bleathwood Models disapeard after the Jubilee kits.

Sorry I should have said Silver for the Board lettering as well.

[Seagull]

Thanks Mick

Alan

[Graeme Leary]

Thanks silverfox - think I can treat this as gospel.
Graeme