BR Ultramarine or purple livery

[Saint Johnstoun]

Experimental Purple.

Only appeared on locos classes

LNER A3 and A4

LMS Princess Coronation and Princess Royal

GWR King

SR Merchant Navy

Only the most powerful express locos were eligible.

Peppercorn A1s came too late for the experimental period and A2s were considered as not eligible due to smaller driving wheels.

[Jades]

RCTS Loco's of the LNER Part 2A describes the colour on the A4's as "almost purple and with cab and tender side panels lined out with red, cream and grey." It's apparently easy to spot which ones got the 'purple' paint scheme as they were the only A4s lined with 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' on the tender. There's quite a bit of detailed info on liveries in the book.

Known 'purple' A4s were:-

60024 - June 1948 to August 1950 (then BR blue)
60027 - June 1948 to July 1950 (then BR blue)
60028 - June 1948 to October 1950 (then BR blue)
60029 - July 1948 to January 1950 (then BR blue)

No sooner had 60027 been painted purple, it had a tender change with the new one needing to be painted purple and the old one repainted plain garter blue.

[DaveF]

Looking in David Jenkinson's book "The Big Four in Colour 1935-1950", published by Atlantic, on page 170 there are two photos of this blue livery, applied to A4 60028 Walter K Wigham and 60084 Trigo.

The former is probably the more well known photo, but each time I see it in a book or magazine the colour is different!

In this book it is certainly blue, though with a faint purlplish tinge.

The comment in the caption mentions the "purple tinge which many contemporary observers noted in this colour".

The A3 caption says the Railway Observer initially described it as Royal Blue, whilst the SLS Journal said it approached Oxford Blue.

As I have scanned many thousand colour slides taken from the very early 1950s to 2003 I would be very wary of relying on a slide for accurate colour rendering; a lot depends on the make of film (they used different chemistry), the processing conditions and how the slide was stored.

Even digital cameras can produce widely varying interpretations of a single colour.

Also book printing and magazine printing is rarely totally faithful to the original colours, as the outcome depends on the ink and paper used as well as the light under which it is viewed.

The same book also contains images of the this experimental blue liver,y on page 165 46241 City of Edinburgh, Page 179 6025 King Henry III and page 183 35024 (unnamed) with a different lining style.

To me the blue looks different in each of the photos.

David

[giner]

Probably the only way we'd get to see the true colour would be if the NRM had access to the original paint specs and did up one of the preserved A4's, or even Scotsman, in the 'correct' hue. I wonder what the odds would be of an original paint chip being archived somewhere. Slim to none, I'm guessing.

[mistahjim]

That or someone finds a flux capacitor and goes back to have a look for themselves...

[kimballthurlow]

I think a clux fapacitor might be better, over that rather longish time span.

From the standpoint of logic, I believe GE blue is the best candidate for true colour, as it was a constituent railway.

regards
Kimball

[mistahjim]

I really like that idea, given how beautiful that colour is on No. 490.

Now, I know the following statement is a prime example of the 'subjective' nature of colour interpretation, but isn't it too dark compared to most representations of the purple livery?

[PGBerrie]

Looking in David Jenkinson's book "The Big Four in Colour 1935-1950", published by Atlantic, on page 170 there are two photos of this blue livery, applied to A4 60028 Walter K Wigham and 60084 Trigo.

Trigo is also the loco pictured in P. N. Townend's "The LNER Pacifics" (Atlantic). Although the engine looks dark blue, the lighting is not good and there is a general blue tinge to the photograph as well. The front buffer plate tends to orange. I do wonder if scanning the photo and correcting for a red buffer plate would give a better idea of the blue, but then it would be my subjective impression of the red.

Peter

[Steve05]

Hi Chaps,

This is perhaps not that helpful but we recently photographed the Hornby model in this colour. I was wondering how convincing is Hornby’s interpretation?



Regards

Steve

[mistahjim]

Regardless of accuracy, it's very pretty.

[52D]

A lot brighter than her last years when she did a lot of Scotland England freight over the Waverley amd ECML, I like this particular A4 but I dont think the experimental colour would have weathered very well if she had been photographed in it at this late period of her life.

[Phipps]

Does anyone know how I could find a paint to match the shade of the above? Perhaps just a toddle to B&Q & get a sample tin made up that would be adequate?
Somebody is selling the bodyshell of Merlin on ebay, but has no matching tender & says "you can easily find a Railmatch paint for this & decorate a tender".....Hmmm, I suspect not

[65447]

On p170 of 'The Big Four in Colour 1935-50' refers to it as 'dark blue' but notes that the Railway Observer called it Royal Blue and the SLS Journal a colour approaching Oxford Blue. However the comment is then added that many people felt there was a distinct purple tinge. The locomotive so painted is A3 60084 Trigo. There is a GWR 'King' in the same style on p179, this time in sunlight, and a Bulleid 'Merchant Navy' on p183 upper with 3 horizontal red bands.

[JASd17]

I don't think the experimental colour will ever be accurately know.

65447 notes various descriptions in the contemporary journals, this is probably the best we have. But describing a colour is more or less impossible. How would you be able to describe something as recent as BR 'rail blue' even now?

We did our best with 'The Big Four in Colour', but it has to be said the team who put it together were more interested in the Grouping Era images and, that said, the GWR came a long way down the list in that regard.

John

[sawdust]

If T&R Williamson of Ripon supplied the paint (big if I know) then they will probably have the records of how to achieve the colour exactly.

Sawdust.